Killer Game Masters

[IVhorseman]

I completely disagree, but carry on.

[stubby]

I'm with IV on this one.  A real GM creates the experience that is satisfying for the players.  Some players want a hack-n-slash cakewalk, where they get to kill a bunch of kills and loot a bunch of loots.  Some want a tense chess game, where one wrong move means destruction.  And some want the odds stacked so badly against them that if even one of them makes it through alive then it'll be the greatest victory any of them has ever enjoyed.  Look at Call of Cthulhu or Paranoia, there's nothing remotely fair about those games but people love them.

[OneEye589]

Yea, I'm with IV, too. My main gaming group was just a bunch of hack 'n slashers and it was boring as hell. We never went against anything stronger than us, and if someone died, they would freak out. What's the point in playing and doing crap if you have no chance of losing?

Even if D&D or RPGs are supposed to be fantasy, there needs to be some sort of reality in them. Not everything you come across is going to be coincidentally near your strength, or able to be beaten. If the adventurers go into a cemetery where they know an incorporeal being might be, serves them right if they can't deal with it. If the adventurers bring a knife to a gunfight, they deserve to be shot at.

[knolli]

Use incorporeal creatures on low-level parties. They are very frequently much more powerful than their CR, and you should use them against parties that do not have the appropriate spells or magic items to damage them.

Ohai fix'd that for you. Real GM's are unfair and they know it.

The use of incorporeal being against unprepared chars has nothing to do with unfairness. It's only unfair if there is no warning that they might get in over their head AND if there is no way of escape. If the lvl. 1-chars want to explore a dragon's lair or the Haunted Forest or the Deep Caverns of DOOM! or the Cave of the Red Bull under King Hagard's fortress, well, they only get what they deserve.

If you were the evil mastermind or necromancer you wouldn't send minions after the party that have no chance of success. Even more so if the PCs possess something of value, may it be an important NPC, a powerfull item or crucial information.
If the Evil One did his job right, he would exploit their weaknesses. If that happens to be incorporeal creatures, so be it.
Now it is your job as a GM to present clues how to escape certain death at the hands of such a superior opponent. Give warnings even before the first encounter and offer escape routes. Later on, when the PCs have done some research and preparation, they can begin to fight back, but for now it's retreat. The joy they feel when he is finally dead for good will be worth it.

Just think of it: What would LotR be without the Nazgûl?
What would happen to all the epicness if Aragorn defeated them singlehandedly in the first book?
With a torch.
And they stayed dead.

Now that I think of it, the Nazgûl have an "aura of terror". Make use of the character's emotions. If your party encounters said bad guy, don't only describe how powerfull he is, but mention the bad feeling they have in their stomach, the cold shiver that runs down their spine or the sheer terror they feel when looking at him. Have them roll for willpower, if the players don't get the clue.

[Keldoclock]

I try not to narrate the character's emotions unless that monster has a special ability that causes them, because it takes narrative control away from the players.

Sticking the players in a room, having the doors animate and lock them in, and then ghosts come through the walls and kill them is no fun. The most recent time I sprung an incorporeal on them was on my level one party, after they took a locket which I had hinted was cursed and they managed to diffuse the encounter by running away, listening to the ghost's mad ramblings, and using Magic Circle spells for protection until they went back to his skeleton and gave him his locket.

[IVhorseman]

Sticking the players in a room, having the doors animate and lock them in, and then ghosts come through the walls and kill them is a sure-fire recipie for fun.

By the way, simply saying "you get a bad feeling about this" is not taking away narrative control. Besides, the narrative is by definition crafted solely by the narrator, so I still don't know what you're talking about...

[Keldoclock]

The players have (a degree of) narrative control, its the entire point of playing a tabletop game as opposed to a CRPG. I would never infringe on their agency.

Doing the locked in a room thing would ruin a party that didn't have at least some capability to avoid it. It would be a good way to end a one-shot adventure, but not in a campaign.

If a player dies, it is their fault.
If all the players die, it's either my fault or they were being incredibly stupid.

[OneEye589]

Telling someone that they get a feeling isn't taking any control away from them. It's not like you would be telling them to run away.

There should always be a way to survive a situation, and sometimes that's not getting into the situation in the first place. No good DM would make a room with no escape, or at least without a warning to the players.

A room like that I could see actually putting in to a dungeon, but there would be symbols all over the door to keep the ghosts within the room and the floor would be covered with skeletons and stuff. The adventurers would also be able to open the door again.

Some people might try to stay and fight, even as level one. The smart ones who deserved to live would run out the frickin' door.

[Tzan]

I have a bad feeling about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnE8RitIN4s

[Keldoclock]

No good DM would make a room with no escape, or at least without a warning to the players.

You appear to be agreeing with me...

[OneEye589]

No good DM would make a room with no escape, or at least without a warning to the players.

You appear to be agreeing with me...

Whoa! I agreed with you?! It's not like I didn't know that in the first place or anything!

I was trying to disagree with you, but obviously failed.

Or you're just an doosh.

[Keldoclock]

The concept of you agreeing with anyone on anything baffles me.

Dooshbandits plague the internet and every day the lines blur further. Who is to say we have not become dooshes?

[mgb519]

[OneEye589]

The concept of you agreeing with anyone on anything baffles me.

Are you kidding me? I agree with you on tons of stuff and you just THINK I'm arguing with you.

[stubby]

The concept of you agreeing with anyone on anything baffles me.

Are you kidding me? I agree with you on tons of stuff and you just THINK I'm arguing with you.

You guys can't even agree on whether or not you agree.