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Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:37 pm
by OneEye589
I definitely admit that I argue with Keldo more than anyone else on here (or at least as of late), but that's because he thinks I'm arguing with him even when I'm agreeing.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:57 pm
by Keldoclock
:omnom:

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:20 pm
by OneEye589
:omnom:

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:43 am
by knolli
Telling the plyers that their characters "have a bad feeling" or are scared is still in the domain of the GM's responsibilities. Whether the PCs overcome the fear or give in to their instincts is up to the players. When in doubt, you can always demand a will-check. It's hard to believe that a Courage 2 char firmly stands his ground when he sees a dragon or undead for the first time.

And to tell the truth: I've never met a player who describes his char's emotions derectly. When I play I usually describe only what the others see/hear my char is doing. They can't look into my/my char's heart. So I say: "My character grabs the haft of his weapon to stop his hands from shaking and has a determined look on his face," or "you can see terror written all over my face and my legs give in," instead of "cold shivers run down my spine."

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:10 pm
by Keldoclock
Exactly! The players have the option of faking emotions to further whatever plots they have...

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:52 pm
by knolli
Keldoclock wrote:Exactly! The players have the option of faking emotions to further whatever plots they have...


Yeah, but feeling and showing are two different pairs of shoes. And it is the GM's privilege to tell them when they feel like shitting their pants. Of course the player has every right to say he doesn't want to show the smallest sign of weakness. But what the player wants and what the character does are not always the same. Sometimes the character simply isn't up to the task. Of course nobody wants to stain their pants, but eye to eye with a dragon even the bravest warrior does. And to decide what happenes you usually use dice.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:09 pm
by OneEye589
I don't see how that would be detrimental to any of the PCs plans, either.

The thing to do would be to tell them that a wave of fear has washed over them, like an aura. It would set the mood and the players would feel powerless against this fear (which they technically are, as the feeling of fear is not something you have control over in the first place). Then, if the player wants to do something that would be facing that inevitable fear, they would make a will save. It's the same as a regular fear aura, but with a creative license to create an atmosfear.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:13 am
by Keldoclock
OneEye589 wrote: atmosfear.

I'd do this if the monster had an actual fear aura, or if it is a CoC style game, or if its perk-based and someone took a drawback like arachnophobia.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 am
by OneEye589
Keldoclock wrote:I'd do this if the monster had an actual fear aura...

Which is what I just said, but with some GM creative license to it.

Also, looking in my D&D book, a will save is defined as "a type of saving throw, related to a character's ability to withstand damage thanks to his mental toughness." I would go and say that the initial feeling would be there if the GM deems fit, but to act on or against those feelings would require a will save. However, it could just be the feeling that the monster creates and it has no mechanical value in game, if only to create atmosphere.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:12 am
by knolli
That's what I tried to say. We were talking about methods to set the mood and give warnings to the players that to stay and fight might end in a total party kill. This is totally unrelated to any special feat the opponent may have.

Any sentient beeing is able to feel fear. To feel no fear in no sign of bravery but stupidity. Bravery is the ability to control and overcome your fear. If the players are able to play characters who are more than just numbers on a sheet of paper they should get the clue and act respectively. If you gave them enough clues and they still want to fight the superior persuer they mustn't argue when the TPK eventually happens.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:21 pm
by Keldoclock
To be certain. I think we can all agree that it is poor GMing to pull a TPK out of your ass.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:33 pm
by OneEye589
Yes, that's why we're trying to find ways to not do a party wipe by leaving actions up to players, not to a GM.

Re: Killer Game Masters

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:16 am
by IVhorseman
Unless you're doing it on purpose for the sheer comedy factor. And hey, if someone actually survives, you have a GREAT story/vendetta!