No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby ninja_bait » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:36 am

RedRover wrote:Could be cool to take the opportunity to make some sort of cannon where Trion gets wiped out


Destroyed by the anti-trion cannon
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby Kastrenzo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:59 pm

So... how does the whole peaches thing work.

This community has been rather hypocritical when it comes to that subject. and the attitudes towards it haven't exactly been say, discouraging to the budding death camp fetishist.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby RedRover » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:47 pm

I too think this is worthy of dialogue
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby Natalya » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:40 pm

I mean, the peaches are supposed to be white people.  I'm also white.  So like if I'm saying my yellow dudes wanna kill all the peaches then IDK maybe it's murky but what are you guys' thoughts on it?
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby TheCraigfulOne » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:44 pm

Duerer wrote:Colette isn't banned from the forum though. No clue who even said that in the first place.

I posted a quote from Natalya about banning him from the Discord, that's likely where the confusion arose.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby TheCraigfulOne » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:45 pm

Natalya wrote:I mean, the peaches are supposed to be white people.

On this topic, what do we do with the black minifigs? Are they peaches or yellows or what?
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby ninja_bait » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 pm

Yeah, I ultimately find it hard to justify as well.

The origin of Peach racism is actually a pretty good parody of how LEGO fans reacted to the first Peach figures.  But most of us have come around to welcoming the figs into our collections, so it is no longer a relevant parody, which might mean it is no longer tasteful?

Natalya wrote:I mean, the peaches are supposed to be white people.  I'm also white.  So like if I'm saying my yellow dudes wanna kill all the peaches then IDK maybe it's murky but what are you guys' thoughts on it?


ehhhhhhhh I think the yellow ones are also supposed to be white people.  It was a nice gesture of universalism to say that yellow was used to be non-racial but I think it's still instinctive to identify the yellow characters as white.  Add to that situation that Hollywood still makes a lot of bad guys non-white so most of the figures of color have eyepatches and evil goatees.... LEGO still has a long way to go in evening out their representation.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby ninja_bait » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:05 pm

On another note, someone should look up the ethics of writing fiction.  How evil can your characters be before someone gets concerned about you, the writer?
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby Kommander Ken » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:48 pm

:wtc:  This thread.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby Kastrenzo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:31 pm

I just feel like saying "death to all peaches" and then telling people they can't act like nazis is a double standard.

I mean,  the in-universe rivalry between the traditional yellows and the peach usurpers is tounge in cheek funny,  but it's starting to be taken too far.

I mean it's OK to demonstrate that peaches, yellows, shitgoats, blue crayon people don't like each other and that they're different,  but. eh..  If you're gonna kill peaches it should be for a reason other than that they're peach

IDK
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby Darkstorm » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:39 pm

Kastrenzo wrote:I just feel like saying "death to all peaches" and then telling people they can't act like nazis is a double standard.

I mean,  the in-universe rivalry between the traditional yellows and the peach usurpers is tounge in cheek funny,  but it's starting to be taken too far.

I mean it's OK to demonstrate that peaches, yellows, shitgoats, blue crayon people don't like each other and that they're different,  but. eh..  If you're gonna kill peaches it should be for a reason other than that they're peach

IDK

I still think that Brikwars is the place where we take the real world and turn it into an ironic version of itself. Attacking the peaches, promoting violence and war, is just an example of why doing such in the real world also leads to violence and war. Just sayin.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby stubby » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:12 pm

This is something I've been going back and forth on a lot over the last year. Originally, Peach racism was a commentary on how stupid and arbitrary racism is. The rule was that yellow minifigs were prejudiced against peach minifigs, but not against brown minifigs, because that would be racist.

But that was back in the early 2000s when satire making fun of racists and racism had a different position in the general social discourse. If you made a joke about how stupid and retrograde racists are, it was understood that everyone was on board because everyone agreed that racists are stupid and retrograde, and anyone who didn't think so was rightly excluded from conversation and society in general.

Nowadays, thanks to /pol/ and /thedonald/ and stormfront etc we can't rely on that being the common understanding anymore, and the jokes live in a different context. Like there are legitimately people who go into a rage at people daring to claim that black lives could matter, and they're not just living in the dumpster behind taco bell anymore, they're in the white house and heading up cable news networks.

Even at their best, the jokes were always in questionable taste, and they made big assumptions about the audience understanding the satire at play. In the past, I didn't mind poor taste and expecting a lot of the audience. In 2018, we don't have the same margin for error that we used to.

BrikWars needs badguys, and even the goodguys are a little bit badguys, so it's hard to make any hard and fast rules about nobody can build storylines around peach racism anymore. But I've developed some serious limits on my tolerance for people who want to use their factions to glorify nazis rather than lampoon them for an ass-kicking.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby Zahru II » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:39 am

I feel like this is getting overthought - if anything hating on fleshfigs is just another afol "it's new so it's bad" grognardism (that's been with us since the fleshfigs' introduction and to a lesser extent is still around), closer in roots to other tropes like the deification of classic space which then the bw mythos exaggerates because it's the bw mythos.

While it may have gotten stronger clout than most afolisms here, I never really cared for it and it seems to be a dying fad if current posts are to go by (a cursory skim suggests most of the current discourse is in the AN thread which might as well be noise and is more about the same issue we're having here). I don't think the point of bw ever was to set any good examples since it's raison d'etre is to act as a vehicle for gratuitous violence and stupid ways to die. I think most of the users are here for that first. Of course there's only so much influence a creator has over the interpretation of their work in the end (and considering the brave new world we're in anything can be spun in the mind of a piltogg as being a validation of their beliefs due to the sheer mental olympics they're capable of) after which it's up to mods to do the job of cleanup crew and weed out any troglodytes that feel they're getting enabled and post stupid crap or derail convos.

tl;dr - it's a dumb vestigial trope but it's on its way out anyways. Mods can handle the rest.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby RedRover » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:42 am

If you are mirroring BW to real life, the peach hatred is playing off of actual racism towards minorites. In the brikverse, yellows are the “dominant race” so that’s a better representation of white power and privilege than peaches (even if peach skin tone is closer IRL). Peaches in the brikverse reflect more of the minority’s in real life, so tropes on oppression and genoicide are cringy at best but really damaging at their worst. I think if you are taking a stand on hate speech shit, then we gotta be intentional about promoting that in content. As said above, there is a difference in racism being used tactfully as a plot device vs fuel for nutzee blokes’ wet dreams.

I essentially agree with others, the dumb peach trope (and race related tropes by extension) should end...

Thanks a lot Donald
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Postby TheCraigfulOne » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:13 am

RedRover wrote:Thanks a lot Donald

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