No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Kastrenzo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:31 pm

I just feel like saying "death to all peaches" and then telling people they can't act like nazis is a double standard.

I mean, the in-universe rivalry between the traditional yellows and the peach usurpers is tounge in cheek funny, but it's starting to be taken too far.

I mean it's OK to demonstrate that peaches, yellows, shitgoats, blue crayon people don't like each other and that they're different, but. eh.. If you're gonna kill peaches it should be for a reason other than that they're peach

IDK
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Darkstorm » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:39 pm

Kastrenzo wrote:I just feel like saying "death to all peaches" and then telling people they can't act like nazis is a double standard.

I mean, the in-universe rivalry between the traditional yellows and the peach usurpers is tounge in cheek funny, but it's starting to be taken too far.

I mean it's OK to demonstrate that peaches, yellows, shitgoats, blue crayon people don't like each other and that they're different, but. eh.. If you're gonna kill peaches it should be for a reason other than that they're peach

IDK
I still think that Brikwars is the place where we take the real world and turn it into an ironic version of itself. Attacking the peaches, promoting violence and war, is just an example of why doing such in the real world also leads to violence and war. Just sayin.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by stubby » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:12 pm

This is something I've been going back and forth on a lot over the last year. Originally, Peach racism was a commentary on how stupid and arbitrary racism is. The rule was that yellow minifigs were prejudiced against peach minifigs, but not against brown minifigs, because that would be racist.

But that was back in the early 2000s when satire making fun of racists and racism had a different position in the general social discourse. If you made a joke about how stupid and retrograde racists are, it was understood that everyone was on board because everyone agreed that racists are stupid and retrograde, and anyone who didn't think so was rightly excluded from conversation and society in general.

Nowadays, thanks to /pol/ and /thedonald/ and stormfront etc we can't rely on that being the common understanding anymore, and the jokes live in a different context. Like there are legitimately people who go into a rage at people daring to claim that black lives could matter, and they're not just living in the dumpster behind taco bell anymore, they're in the white house and heading up cable news networks.

Even at their best, the jokes were always in questionable taste, and they made big assumptions about the audience understanding the satire at play. In the past, I didn't mind poor taste and expecting a lot of the audience. In 2018, we don't have the same margin for error that we used to.

BrikWars needs badguys, and even the goodguys are a little bit badguys, so it's hard to make any hard and fast rules about nobody can build storylines around peach racism anymore. But I've developed some serious limits on my tolerance for people who want to use their factions to glorify nazis rather than lampoon them for an ass-kicking.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Zahru II » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:39 am

I feel like this is getting overthought - if anything hating on fleshfigs is just another afol "it's new so it's bad" grognardism (that's been with us since the fleshfigs' introduction and to a lesser extent is still around), closer in roots to other tropes like the deification of classic space which then the bw mythos exaggerates because it's the bw mythos.

While it may have gotten stronger clout than most afolisms here, I never really cared for it and it seems to be a dying fad if current posts are to go by (a cursory skim suggests most of the current discourse is in the AN thread which might as well be noise and is more about the same issue we're having here). I don't think the point of bw ever was to set any good examples since it's raison d'etre is to act as a vehicle for gratuitous violence and stupid ways to die. I think most of the users are here for that first. Of course there's only so much influence a creator has over the interpretation of their work in the end (and considering the brave new world we're in anything can be spun in the mind of a piltogg as being a validation of their beliefs due to the sheer mental olympics they're capable of) after which it's up to mods to do the job of cleanup crew and weed out any troglodytes that feel they're getting enabled and post stupid crap or derail convos.

tl;dr - it's a dumb vestigial trope but it's on its way out anyways. Mods can handle the rest.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by RedRover » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:42 am

If you are mirroring BW to real life, the peach hatred is playing off of actual racism towards minorites. In the brikverse, yellows are the “dominant race” so that’s a better representation of white power and privilege than peaches (even if peach skin tone is closer IRL). Peaches in the brikverse reflect more of the minority’s in real life, so tropes on oppression and genoicide are cringy at best but really damaging at their worst. I think if you are taking a stand on hate speech shit, then we gotta be intentional about promoting that in content. As said above, there is a difference in racism being used tactfully as a plot device vs fuel for nutzee blokes’ wet dreams.

I essentially agree with others, the dumb peach trope (and race related tropes by extension) should end...

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Kommander Ken » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:04 am

Just make factions that hate everyone equally. :phil:

Always worked fer me, ya bleedin gitz.

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Natalya » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:16 am

I was moving away from using the ASE for anything a couple years ago, but there remained lots of interest or at least it looked that way so I didn't let it quietly die. Umm I absolutely would never allow them to dislike the other skin colours, just peach. For me it absolutely was a gut reaction when peaches came out that minifigs are yellow damn it. I still don't like peaches. I'll probably hate them forever.

But in the mean time yeah y'all are right the internet is providing a way for white supremacists to network and recruit marginalized dimwits and things are looking fucked IRL. So I'm not sure what to do. Retkon the ASE to be peach tolerant? Certainly possible in BrikWars but to what end? Recently I disassembled my SHIP, and the ASE soldiers were broken anyway with their heavy laser rifles, and theyre looking tired tbh. With my Space Canadians I have avoided that subject altogether; the kannon at this moment doesn't give them a stance either for or agInst peaches. I can deide to focus my efforts on them. But they are a kinda boring faction even if I think they look cooler than the ASE. That was a pun btw.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by ninja_bait » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:27 am

Natalya wrote:Recently I disassembled my SHIP.
:no:
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Darkstorm » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:30 am

ninja_bait wrote:
Natalya wrote:Recently I disassembled my SHIP.
:no:
:no:
Tbh that ship was the thing that got me into brikwars in the first place. I saw it scrolling through images of lego space stuff. :cry:
However, all must change in due time. Why don't you build a new SHIP for the CSL? That would be cool.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Tzan » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:02 am

I think peach racism is hillaryous.
I can somehow differentiate between a web forum fiction and actual reality.
I don't think legit racists take their cues from a bunch of forum nerds talking about the color of minifigs.

Get a grip people.


Of course staying away from a full on Piltogg faction that murders Jews is totally sensible.
But we never had that anyway.

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Falk » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:05 am

Tzan has spoken
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by ninja_bait » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:21 pm

Darkstorm wrote: :no:
Tbh that ship was the thing that got me into brikwars in the first place. I saw it scrolling through images of lego space stuff. :cry:
However, all must change in due time. Why don't you build a new SHIP for the CSL? That would be cool.
A couple smaller frigates would be cool so you can have them to fight each other.

So anyway, is Major Natalya getting a retirement party or a swan song battle soon?
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Falk » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:47 pm

I thought Major Natalya is in the CSE now
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by RedRover » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:44 pm

Tzan wrote:I can somehow differentiate between a web forum fiction and actual reality.
I have not doubt that sensible people can accomplish this, it’s the other ones I fear.
Tzan wrote:I don't think legit racists take their cues from a bunch of forum nerds talking about the color of minifigs.
I’m sure the established ones don’t need cues to grow in their ideologie, just looking for places that they can perverse into an outlet. On a different note, I think we underestimate the amount of young form members and lurkers who might be more impressionable. By no means is Brikwars about being role models, but we also don’t need to model / perpetuate IRL hatred.

Just my 2 cents

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by TheCraigfulOne » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:50 pm

RedRover wrote:
Tzan wrote:I can somehow differentiate between a web forum fiction and actual reality.
I have not doubt that sensible people can accomplish this, it’s the other ones I fear.
Tzan wrote:I don't think legit racists take their cues from a bunch of forum nerds talking about the color of minifigs.
I’m sure the established ones don’t need cues to grow in their ideologie, just looking for places that they can perverse into an outlet. On a different note, I think we underestimate the amount of young form members and lurkers who might be more impressionable. By no means is Brikwars about being role models, but we also don’t need to model / perpetuate IRL hatred.

Just my 2 cents
I started lurking here when I was 10 years old and I had no trouble telling that the racist ASE was not indicative of any actual racism by Natalya. Maybe some people have a harder time distinguishing satire (i.e Poe's Law), but I've never had an issue with the Space Nazis or anything else on here.

My view is that as long as the reasonable people can recognize stuff as satirical, then I don't give a fuck if the Nazis think it's endorsing their views or supporting them or whatever because if they bring that shit over here we ban them anyway. I think as long as anyone with two brain cells can recognize that this whole forum isn't blatantly racism then the opinions of the Nazis are irrerelevant.

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