April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Natalya » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:07 am

I like how the extremely different unit types turned this into a strategic game. With the battles I have played, the main thing that differentiated units in a way that affected the battle has usually been their weapon type. I do not understand the armoured rule, can someone explain it to me? I thought it was just a solid amount against any type of attack, for example the minifig stat card says it is 4 and on my Spider Tank it is 4d10. How does the armoured designation affect this?

And why are horses easier to knock over from the side? Oh and I thought if a unit was disrupted then the only thing it could do in its next turn was get up, but y'all have made it sound like that is not the case.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby aoffan23 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:21 am

I think all of these are because of the 2010 update.

Armoured: the minifig can take off one damage die of each type from each attack before the damage is rolled. This means that a pistol that has 1d6 damage would be ineffective against an Armoured minifig because it only has one die of damage, and since the die is removed before it is rolled, crit successes don't apply (I might be wrong about this part). However, a giant, two-handed mace that has 2d6 damage would have its damage reduced to 1d6. Since it is one die from each attack, combined fire from pistols still does nothing against an Armoured minifig. Note: the minifig's move is reduced by half.

Disrupted: From what I can remember, being Disrupted in the 2010 rules only applies a -2" move penalty, and doesn't take up an action any more.

And I didn't read the part about the horses, so I have no idea about that one.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Natalya » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:39 am

What do you mean by each type?
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby aoffan23 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:48 am

By types, I mean how many sides the die has. So if an oil barrel explodes and deals 1d10 explosion damage, plus 1d4 fire damage, they are both ignored, and the Armoured minifig just shrugs it off like a boss.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Natalya » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:51 am

Holy shit, the implications for that are awesome.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby IX_Legion » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:27 am

Yeah, the only way to hurt an armored fig with 1d anything weapons is to get a crit success on the skill roll, which overskills into another die of damage. And the thing about the horse, if the knockback is greater than (twice?) the length of the creation in the direction it's moving, it's knocked over. So hitting it from the front, you need like 2" (4"?), but from the side only 1/2" (1"?)

It's in the collision rules, and I'm just working off of memory here, so if it's wrong, don't sue me.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Natalya » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:53 pm

What about creations with a high structure level? My Vanquisher Super Tank has 3d10 armour. What is the threshold of calling something armoured? And what if the attack was by a modified gun like a bastard gun that has a +1 damage modifier? Does that modifier get erased, or is it the d6 that gets erased? And if a critical success on a skill roll gets you a bonus die, then what about heroes? If they get from a 6 to a 9 should they get the bonus d6 even though it was not a critical on a d10?
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Zupponn » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:10 pm

I don't like the 2010 rules for armor, so I still use the 2005 rules. I like things dieing in Brikwars and the 2005 rules were quite good in preventing that. I feel that there was no need to increase the effectiveness of armor.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby IX_Legion » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:52 pm

Natalya wrote:What about creations with a high structure level? My Vanquisher Super Tank has 3d10 armour. What is the threshold of calling something armoured?

Each level of being armored removes another die. Not sure on the upper limit of that, or the movement effects. So if your tank has 3 levels of armor, three dice of each kind are removed.

Natalya wrote:And what if the attack was by a modified gun like a bastard gun that has a +1 damage modifier? Does that modifier get erased, or is it the d6 that gets erased?


Yep. You lose any modifiers, too, as far as I understand. Not sure if they still apply to critical success rolls.

Natalya wrote:And if a critical success on a skill roll gets you a bonus die, then what about heroes? If they get from a 6 to a 9 should they get the bonus d6 even though it was not a critical on a d10?


Yeah, that's my biggest problem. The "better" dice actually have a lower chance of a crit success. Not sure how you'd resolve that, take it up w/Stubby/Rayhawk.

Bottom line: try these rules out, and if you don't like them, go back to the 2005 rules for armor.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:03 pm

aoffan23 wrote:By types, I mean how many sides the die has. So if an oil barrel explodes and deals 1d10 explosion damage, plus 1d4 fire damage, they are both ignored, and the Armoured minifig just shrugs it off like a boss.


:shock: I didn't catch this the last time I read through 2010 rules. I played a few games where my solution to armored targets was to have archers light their arrows on fire to help penetrate the armor. Guess I wasn't allowed to do that and armor is even more powerful...I might just conveniently forget that clause about types...

@ Natalya: I also like games with varied unit times (obviously, lol), and that is why I love playing this barbarian faction so much. Wonky, lots of options, not your standard minifig mass fighting another minifig mass.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby stubby » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:39 pm

IX_Legion wrote:Each level of being armored removes another die. Not sure on the upper limit of that, or the movement effects. So if your tank has 3 levels of armor, three dice of each kind are removed.

There's only one level of being armored. If you have a second level then it would reduce you from 1/2 speed to 0/2 speed. Objects are either armored or they're not, there aren't levels of armor.

The reason it's tough to kill armored units is because it's cool to face units that are tough to kill. Think of the ATATs in the assault on Hoth. Normal weapons couldn't affect them, so the rebels had to disable them with their tow cables instead. Same with Armored units - they're strong against weapon damage, weak against disabling. Knock them over and they're in trouble, dunk them in water and they're done.

I'm also adding a clause about joints and moving parts - those parts that are already one structure level weaker than the rest of the object are also considered un-Armored.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Natalya » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:59 pm

Is there a structure level at which something automatically gets counted as armoured? Like my tank with structure level 3.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby stubby » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:20 pm

Natalya wrote:And what if the attack was by a modified gun like a bastard gun that has a +1 damage modifier? Does that modifier get erased, or is it the d6 that gets erased?

The die gets erased. Usually the +1 isn't enough to do anything by itself, but if you can combine enough +1s together then maybe they could accomplish something.

IX_Legion wrote:
Natalya wrote:And if a critical success on a skill roll gets you a bonus die, then what about heroes? If they get from a 6 to a 9 should they get the bonus d6 even though it was not a critical on a d10?

Yeah, that's my biggest problem. The "better" dice actually have a lower chance of a crit success. Not sure how you'd resolve that, take it up w/Stubby/Rayhawk.

This has been a problem in other areas also; the solution I used for supernatural dice is to have crit successes buy the same die type instead of just a d6. You may have less chance of critting on a d12, for instance, but you get another d12 as the reward.

The other way to make it fair is to increase the crit range, although that starts to get more number-crunchy than I like. d4 has no crit, d6 crits on 6, d8 crits on 7/8, d10 crits on 8/9/10, d12 crits on 9/10/11/12.

Natalya wrote:And why are horses easier to knock over from the side?

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Natalya wrote:Is there a structure level at which something automatically gets counted as armoured? Like my tank with structure level 3.

Nope. You have to decide for yourself what's armored and what isn't.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby Natalya » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:26 pm

How do you know what part of the body to apply the push to? In the second frame it might not have fallen over if you pushed the head.
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Re: April 22 Brikwar @ Jersey: For the Horde!

Postby stubby » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:33 pm

Natalya wrote:How do you know what part of the body to apply the push to? In the second frame it might not have fallen over if you pushed the head.

9.3: Thrust Vectors wrote:As any mathematician will tell you, vector algebra is an infinitely bigger pain in the ass than either the vectors or the algebra would seem to indicate on their own. Worse, vector algebra becomes increasingly difficult to perform after a fourth shot of whiskey, making it useless for any part of BrikWars after the first seven minutes.

Fortunately, a BrikWars player's instinctive response to Thrust vector calculations turns out to be the correct one: Thrust is handled by Giving It The Finger. Place a fingertip at the point of Thrust (either an active Thrust device or a point of impact, usually), and push the object the appropriate number of inches in the appropriate direction. The model on the table will choose how far to move and how far to rotate on its own without any need for further calculation. (Wheeled models may need to be stopped manually at the end of each Thrust to keep them from rolling away forever, of course.)

For instantaneous one-time Thrust effects, that's is all you need. KnockBack from Shoves, Collisions, large Weapon strikes, and Explosions are all executed neatly and efficiently by Giving Them the Finger.

You push the horse wherever the object pushing it is pushing it. For the examples I just figured a minifig would push a horse at minifig shoulder height or so. If you had a very tall minifig pushing on the horse's head instead, then I guess you would push on the horse's head instead.

The thrust vector section is the type of section that most people skip over completely, so I might need to put Giving the Finger somewhere more prominent.
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