A Question of Preference

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A Question of Preference

Postby Ben-Jammin » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:44 am

Okay, so there has always been one thing about all of the rulebook editions (since 2001 anyway) that confused me. I know this has probably been stated a thousand times before but, when it comes to size damage, do you use the vehicle's size in inches as its SP or the number of its structure level? For Example:

Mk II(C) Typhoon Main Battle Tank
CP: 52
Move: 8"
Armor: 3d10
Size: 6"
Size Rating: 3
Crew: 1
Passengers: 2
.50 caliber MG: CP: 6 UR: 4 RNG: 10” DMG: 2d6
100mm HVG: CP: 12 UR: 8 RNG: 24” DMG: 4d10 exp
2 Mk II ATGM Launcher: CP: 6 each UR: 4 RNG: 12” DMG: 2d10 exp

Now suppose that my mighty tank just got hit by an ATGM, and its armor roll wasn't so mighty, which cost it two structure points in damage. Would I subtract those two from the vehicle's size (6"), causing it to lose the number of weapons it could use in one turn, or would they subtract from its size rating, leaving it only a size 1 build in terrible shape?

Basically, my question is which one do you guys use more often? If damage subtracts from its overall size in inches, that means your vehicles have a much better survival rate unless their hit by like a nuke or something. If the damage is taken from the size rating then it is a lot more realistic as even the most heavily armored vehicles can be destroyed with just a few rockets on a good hit.

Thoughts?
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby Falk » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:14 pm

I just ignored the "max inches of weapons per turn" rule and say that as long as you have crew/computers (I say that computers have a 1d10 skill for the same weapon each turn), you can fire the weapin. As to the damage thing, the creation like your tank would have 3d10 armor and 3HP, and you can add HP for 1CP per HP (so adding a 4th HP would cost 4CP). It probably sounds complicated, that's just cuz I explained it badly.

I hope that answers your question.
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:18 pm

I'm relatively certain that the damage takes away from Size. This does make well-armored vehicles quite survivable unless there is a lot of combined fire going on like Bonn-o-Tron. If I remember correctly, only grinding damage can/will effectively reduce armor. Or targeting components rather than the entire vehicle. Or destroying components such that the effective size is reduced below the Structure Level.
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:22 pm

Falk wrote:As to the damage thing, the creation like your tank would have 3d10 armor and 3HP, and you can add HP for 1CP per HP (so adding a 4th HP would cost 4CP). It probably sounds complicated, that's just cuz I explained it badly.


This is incorrect. The creation's size determines how many points of damage the creation can take. Here is the section of the rulebook explaining it:

7.2 Size Damage wrote:As when attacking minifigs, General Damage must first exceed the target’s Armor to have any effect. If it does, the target Creation takes one point of Size Damage, represented by sticking a colored Damage Pip to a prominent spot on the Creation or its baseplate. Black or red 1x1 bricks are the usual choice for Damage Pips, although other elements may be used for convenience or better visibility.

When a Creation takes a point of Size Damage, it remains the same physical size, but it receives disadvantages as if its effective Size were reduced by one inch. (Any potential advantages that would result from a smaller Size, such as a decreased targeting bonus for attackers, are ignored.) The weapons and devices the Creation can activate during a turn, as well as the Creation's maximum Momentum in a Charge attack, are decreased as if it were one inch smaller. Additionally, its Move is decreased by 1" (to a minimum of 1"). As the Creation takes further points of Size Damage, all of these penalties are cumulative.

Most importantly, if a Creation's effective Size is decreased below the minimum requirement for its Structure Level, its Structure Level is decreased to match, making badly damaged Creations even more vulnerable. Surface Elements and moving parts whose Structure Level is relative to that of the main Creation are also weakened accordingly, to a minimum Structure Level of ½ and Armor of 1d6.

If Size Damage is enough to reduce a Creation's effective Size to zero, the Creation is destroyed in the manner that seems most appropriate. Towers collapse, spaceships explode, whales go belly-up, zeppelins burst into flame, and pirate ships sink to the briny bottom. Creations of Size 1" (and Vermin of Size 0") are destroyed on the first point of Size Damage.
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby stubby » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:27 pm

Size Damage always counts against a vehicle's Size in inches. So if the vehicle is 6" and it takes two points of Size Damage, it has a new Effective Size of 4".

Size Damage doesn't affect Structure Level until the Effective Size is too small to support it. A vehicle needs to be 3" or larger to have a Structure Level of 3. So in this example, if the Effective Size is reduced to 4", there's no effect on the Structure Level.

If it's reduced by two more points to an Effective Size of 2", then the Structure Level is also reduced to 2, because that's the highest Structure Level you can have at Size 2".

Ben-Jammin wrote:Now suppose that my mighty tank just got hit by an ATGM, and its armor roll wasn't so mighty, which cost it two structure points in damage. Would I subtract those two from the vehicle's size (6"), causing it to lose the number of weapons it could use in one turn, or would they subtract from its size rating, leaving it only a size 1 build in terrible shape?

I don't really know what you mean by "structure points" and "size rating." Vehicles only have Size and Structure Level, and they have Effective Size which is their actual Size minus any Size Damage.

So here's what the tank looks like at each level of size damage:

No Size Damage: Effective Size 6", Move 8", Armor 3d10, can fire 12" of weapons per turn
1 point of Size Damage: Effective Size 5", Move 7", Armor 3d10, can fire 10" of weapons per turn
2 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 4", Move 6", Armor 3d10, can fire 8" of weapons per turn
3 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 3", Move 5", Armor 3d10, can fire 6" of weapons per turn
4 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 2", Move 4", Armor 2d10, can fire 4" of weapons per turn
5 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 1", Move 3", Armor 1d10, can fire 2" of weapons per turn
6 points of Size Damage: Destroyed
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby Whiteagle » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:15 pm

Yeah, each point of size damage only takes away 2" of weapon length, and any weapon large enough to be rendered unusable by that probably makes up most of the structure anyways...

Speaking of, how much length do twin-linked weapons use?
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby Ben-Jammin » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:23 pm

stubby wrote:Size Damage always counts against a vehicle's Size in inches. So if the vehicle is 6" and it takes two points of Size Damage, it has a new Effective Size of 4".

Size Damage doesn't affect Structure Level until the Effective Size is too small to support it. A vehicle needs to be 3" or larger to have a Structure Level of 3. So in this example, if the Effective Size is reduced to 4", there's no effect on the Structure Level.

If it's reduced by two more points to an Effective Size of 2", then the Structure Level is also reduced to 2, because that's the highest Structure Level you can have at Size 2".

Ben-Jammin wrote:Now suppose that my mighty tank just got hit by an ATGM, and its armor roll wasn't so mighty, which cost it two structure points in damage. Would I subtract those two from the vehicle's size (6"), causing it to lose the number of weapons it could use in one turn, or would they subtract from its size rating, leaving it only a size 1 build in terrible shape?

I don't really know what you mean by "structure points" and "size rating." Vehicles only have Size and Structure Level, and they have Effective Size which is their actual Size minus any Size Damage.

So here's what the tank looks like at each level of size damage:

No Size Damage: Effective Size 6", Move 8", Armor 3d10, can fire 12" of weapons per turn
1 point of Size Damage: Effective Size 5", Move 7", Armor 3d10, can fire 10" of weapons per turn
2 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 4", Move 6", Armor 3d10, can fire 8" of weapons per turn
3 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 3", Move 5", Armor 3d10, can fire 6" of weapons per turn
4 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 2", Move 4", Armor 2d10, can fire 4" of weapons per turn
5 points of Size Damage: Effective Size 1", Move 3", Armor 1d10, can fire 2" of weapons per turn
6 points of Size Damage: Destroyed


Oh, okay. That's how I always did it. I was updating the stats for my armies and so I was just wanting to clarify.
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby IVhorseman » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:31 pm

In shorthand gamer terminology, Size = HP and Structure = Armor.
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Re: A Question of Preference

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:51 pm

That is the simplest explanation I have ever seen. There should be more of these short recaps after a walls of texts in the rulebook.
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