Snipers

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Snipers

Postby pkbrennan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:46 am

Working on Viktoria, the sultry Nord lass with the sniper's rifle, and been thinking about her lack of skill when her weapon works out at a use 4.

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Stats

Base Cost: 4 CP

Skill: 1d6
Move: 5"
Armour: 4

Equipment:

Combat Knife: Size S, Use 2, Range CC, Damage 1d6.
Revolver: Size S, Use 3, Range 6", Damage 1d6.
Sniper's Rifle: Size 2, Use 4, Range 10", Damage 2d6.

Total Cost: 15 CP

The rifle costs 6CP as a MOC weapon, which means it loses 2" range compared to a standard rifle but has Damage of 2d6.

How much d'ya think it should cost for a "sniper" base template? Boost the skill up to +2 and maybe give a "Sniper" speciality (If she stays still for a turn she gets a bonus to hit or something, or double the usual effective range of the weapon, so she can push it to 20")
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Re: Snipers

Postby Keldoclock » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:25 am

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Re: Snipers

Postby pkbrennan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:58 am

Nah, some parts of that I don't like. Suitable for a lone sniper / assassin, but not for a sniper that is part of a squad. Maybe I could do a lesser template for sharp shooter - not as good or expensive as a sniper, but works well in a squad.

Sharp Shooter: 8CP

Skill: 1d6+2
Move: 5"
Armour: 4

Speciality: Measured Shot

Measured Shot: If the sharp shooter does not move on a turn she fires, she can double the effective range of her main firearm (Rifle or Sniper's Rifle).

You think that sounds about right?
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Re: Snipers

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:03 pm

But standard rifles already have 10" range, and a unit gets dropped down to half-speed for carrying around a size 2 weapon (that they can't even fire without help). If you still wanted a size 2 weapon, you could attach a tripod to it, and as a full-round action, a minifig could set up a totally sweet sniper spot with it.

Actually, I've noticed that simply giving a unit a scope (this is my house rules btw) lets them effectively function as a squad sniper with ANY rifle.

The way I use em, a scope is a weapon attachment that adds 1d6" to range if the unit chooses to spend a turn standing still to aim. Since aiming is an action that also gives you a +1 to ranged skill, it effectively transforms a standard rifle into a weapon with 1d6+10" of range, 1d6+1 damage, and a use rating of only two. Very deadly.

I suppose I'd charge 2cp per scope? I don't really know how to value CP.
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Re: Snipers

Postby pkbrennan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:38 pm

I could always just drop it down to a standard rifle, giving it use of 3 and range of 12", with 1d6+1 Damage for 5 CP (Size M), and then add the scope for 2CP that raises its effective range by 50% (18"). Knock the base cost of the Sharp Shooter to 6CP and use those two construction points to give her Skill 1d8 (which is essentially the same as 1d6+2, really). Her speciality will be "Scope", which means she knows how to calibrate and use a scope (totally different to using a standard sight).
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Re: Snipers

Postby Quantumsurfer » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Here's a thought. BW is geared toward close combat, essentially, per the basic rules. Gun ranges are small to get forces mixed up quicker. The first battle report I made, I played on a typical (for a wargame) 4x6 table. If I hadn't flat out forgotten about sprinting rules and if I hadn't cracked out runners so hard they could outpace bullets, that game would've taken forever.

So snipers are a kind of unit that benefit from having range. And we're trying to ram them into a game that doesn't like ranged combat. Which is fine, the ruleset totally covers expansion into that concept for those who want to explore it. But we also have control of the battlefields we play on like Bonn-o-Tron. Snipers don't deploy in close combat. So you wouldn't necessarily field them on a small map, one more suited to a typical BW game. They would shine, however, on a larger map.

I mean, carry on with your rules finangling for sure, to make those extra inches important, but consider the battlefield as well as food for thought.
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Re: Snipers

Postby pkbrennan » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:01 pm

This is why I am going for "sharp shooter" rather than full blown sniper as listed in the card above. I am trying to get the balance between having a minifig that is just generally better at shooting than most and keeping with the close and dirty combat aspect of the game. Hence all the tinkering and debating.
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Re: Snipers

Postby aoffan23 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:50 pm

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I'd say just use the Gunner as a template, and say that deploying the bipod/tripod makes the rifle a mounted weapon. This also gives you the option of having two snipers work together, with one of them acting as a spotter.
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Re: Snipers

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:07 pm

Tripods DO make things count as mounted weapons.

Maybe a scope should use skill instead of just 1d6 as it's range bonus? If that were the case, gunners could easily double as snipers.
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Re: Snipers

Postby pkbrennan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:53 am

Sharp Shooter:

Base Cost: 6CP

Skill: 1d8
Move: 5"
Armour: 4

Specialities: Measured Shot.

When using a standard rifle with a fitted scope, the Sharp Shooter can add 50% effective range to a standard rifle so long as the minifig does not move that turn. Otherwise, the Sharp Shooter will get the standard range out of the rifle if they move on the same turn as firing.

Scopes cost 2CP each, and cannot be swapped between weapons in game.

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Re: Snipers

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:01 pm

pkbrennan wrote:Sharp Shooter:
When using a standard rifle with a fitted scope, the Sharp Shooter can add 50% effective range to a standard rifle so long as the minifig does not move that turn. Otherwise, the Sharp Shooter will get the standard range out of the rifle if they move on the same turn as firing.


See, having the bonus effective range is what pushes this unit over the top - he might as well have infinite range like the other sniper since he'll be shooting so much further in comparison to any other weapon besides artillery and rockets.

You could change the measured shot to allow the sharpshooter to use their skill d8 instead of the d6 (they're trained to use scopes so it makes a good bit of sense), but if you ruled that scopes ALWAYS used skill (making a hero with a sniper rifle totally awesome), then they'd have pretty much the exact same stats as the Gunners do. Which isn't a bad thing, it's just yet another use for gunners.

Having thoroughly play-tested scopes, I've found that they're incredibly effective as-is. The chance to roll a 6 is low, but if it happens even ONCE you have an effective 18-20" or so to shoot with. I've totally seen it happen more than twice in a row too; I think the record we had was something past 30", at which point we realized that rolling more was pointless since everything else on the field was within that range anyways.
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Re: Snipers

Postby stubby » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:01 pm

I kind of like just saying a turn of aiming gives snipers an automatic hit, but they're still subject to the usual damage penalties for Out of Range.

Either that, or every turn aiming adds +1d6" Range.
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Re: Snipers

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:37 pm

Use rating of 2 pretty much IS an auto-hit, unless they critically fail, which is far funnier than an auto-hit.
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Re: Snipers

Postby Gungnir » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:07 am

stubby wrote:...They're still subject to the usual damage penalties for Out of Range.

Oh, is that what it is? We usually just give our units a -1 penalty for every inch out of range they are.
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Re: Snipers

Postby IVhorseman » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:39 pm

it is. -1 to both skill and damage.
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