Newbish n00b questions, MkII

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Mon May 20, 2013 2:46 am

The CP system is pretty cool if you're into that kind of thing, but most of us just limit our forces to however many bricks we have.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Kirillyos » Mon May 20, 2013 3:07 am

IVhorseman wrote:The CP system is pretty cool if you're into that kind of thing, but most of us just limit our forces to however many bricks we have.


I've got a bit of a situation regarding that, actually...

I'm the only one of my local wargaming friends to actually have LEGO (a big ol' Rubbermaid tub full of it, and then some). I'm also the only one of them that can host. Their ability to accumulate their own massive collection of LEGO or to host is stymied by the fact that they still live in dorms at the local Air Force Base (poor bachelors).

Anyway, I have no problem inviting them over and sharing, but how to best distribute the LEGO I have for maximum BrikWars awesomeness, especially the MOCs I've already built before they arrive? Do I have each of us pick a unit in turn, like a kickball lineup? Do I give everyone an allotment of points and "auction off" the pre-made units? Do I make stat cards and then have everyone draw stat cards at random?

I'm sure some of you have probably encountered similar issues with having to share a LEGO collection with siblings.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Mon May 20, 2013 3:43 am

27. I like it. Makes battles more fair. I know most people don't like it, but I've been gaming for a while, so I play a little more seriously than most.
28. *shrug*
29. See 7.
30. I usually just use multiples of 10 or 100.
31. No.
32. I'd like to, but I'd actually have to write them up, and then clear them with the rest of my group.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Mon May 20, 2013 10:06 am

Kirillyos wrote:Anyway, I have no problem inviting them over and sharing, but how to best distribute the LEGO I have for maximum Brikwars awesomeness, especially the MOCs I've already built begore they arrive? Do I have each of us pick a unit in turn, like a kickball lineup? Do I give everyone an allotment of points and "auction off" the pre-made units? Do I make stat cards and then have everyone draw stat cards at random?

Cases like this, best thing to do is toss together roughly-balanced armies in advance and then let the guests pick between them when they show up. It saves a lot of time and gives you a chance to put together less random groups than what you get from letting everyone pick units one at a time.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Mon May 20, 2013 10:23 am

Kirillyos wrote:31. Does anyone ever play Brikwars as a more Civ-style game, with development of your minifigs' civilization, Tech Trees, and/or gathering alliances to crush the opposition (and inevitably stab them all in the back once they've outlived their usefulness?

32. Anybody ever use weather effects during battles? If you did, how did you implement them?
I assume they'd work like field hazards.

31. Yep, although never successfully. I get a couple dozen emails a year from people trying to do this, but none from anyone who succeeds. I don't think BrikWars really lends itself well to traditional tech trees. A more story-game version of civilization development would be better, like something "Dawn of Worlds" or "FU" style, but wargamers are usually a lot more familiar with tech trees than story games.

32. A lot of the field hazards rules came out of weather effects. Off the top of my head, I've seen rain dances to put out fires, nightfall to assist stealth, and of course wind direction in naval sail battles. I'm sure I could think of others.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Falk » Mon May 20, 2013 12:57 pm

Lighting storms to take out armored-er...shielded units, meteor showers, floods, snow blizzards.
Of course, if you abuse them then your face will be getting a "kiss" from the hammer of discipline or your shins will mysteriously turn black and blue. :twisted:
BrikWars 2010 Rules wrote:BrikWars ... stands in pretty direct opposition to many fundamental elements of the LEGO® philosophy, such as "Not Teaching Kids How Funny It Is to Set People on Fire."

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Kirillyos » Mon May 20, 2013 6:01 pm

stubby wrote:31. Yep, although never successfully. I get a couple dozen emails a year from people trying to do this, but none from anyone who succeeds. I don't think BrikWars really lends itself well to traditional tech trees. A more story-game version of civilization development would be better, like something "Dawn of Worlds" or "FU" style, but wargamers are usually a lot more familiar with tech trees than story games.


I looked up "Dawn of Worlds", and it seemed pretty epic. What is "FU"? And don't worry, after a dozen years experience Dungeon Mastering D&D and other RPGs, I know a thing or two about world creation.

stubby wrote:32. A lot of the field hazards rules came out of weather effects. Off the top of my head, I've seen rain dances to put out fires, nightfall to assist stealth, and of course wind direction in naval sail battles. I'm sure I could think of others.


And of course, even real-life military operations have tried to turn the weather in their favor - sometimes, successfully...

"Desiring good weather for his advance, which would permit close ground support by U.S. Army Air Forces tactical aircraft, Patton ordered the Third Army chaplain, Colonel James O'Neill, to compose a suitable prayer: "Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call upon Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies, and establish Thy justice among men and nations. Amen." When the weather cleared soon after, Patton awarded O'Neill a Bronze Star Medal on the spot."

Falk wrote:Lighting storms to take out armored-er...shielded units, meteor showers, floods, snow blizzards.
Of course, if you abuse them then your face will be getting a "kiss" from the hammer of discipline or your shins will mysteriously turn black and blue. :twisted:


Actually, unless a weathermancer is present among the forces (see above), I was thinking it would be up to the (hopefully impartial) whims of the host/referee/Game Master - just like controlling other neutral dangers (local wildlife, unruly natives, Swiss halberdiers).

Bumping up some questions that seem to have gotten forgotten in the shuffle...

27. Construction Points - Like 'em? Hate 'em? Don't care?

28. Reasons you think the CP concept does or doesn't make sense?

29. Any changes you'd make to the CP system or a different game mechanic you'd use instead?

30. For those of that you that do use CP, what are some common allotments for various scale battles (barroom brawl, border skirmish, WWIII, etc)? I never know what kind of numbers I should be using for these things.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Pwnerade » Tue May 21, 2013 4:02 pm

CP are for the weak-minded. War is never balanced and fair in real life, so why should Brikwars be? If all battles were perfectly balanced, then there would be no thrilling tales of small units holding against all odds. There would also be no hilarious instances of small units getting steamrolled by huge tanks.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby aoffan23 » Tue May 21, 2013 4:47 pm

stubby wrote:
Kirillyos wrote:Anyway, I have no problem inviting them over and sharing, but how to best distribute the LEGO I have for maximum Brikwars awesomeness, especially the MOCs I've already built begore they arrive? Do I have each of us pick a unit in turn, like a kickball lineup? Do I give everyone an allotment of points and "auction off" the pre-made units? Do I make stat cards and then have everyone draw stat cards at random?

Cases like this, best thing to do is toss together roughly-balanced armies in advance and then let the guests pick between them when they show up. It saves a lot of time and gives you a chance to put together less random groups than what you get from letting everyone pick units one at a time.


This is great advice. Just take whatever units you have, and divide them up into however many balanced groups. Put the most heavily armoured vehicle in one group, and give the other groups the best anti-tank weapons. Give one group the biggest horde of minifigs, and give the other groups the best machine guns or area of effect weapons. Give one group alot of Shielded units, and give the rest of the groups multi-die weapons. You get the idea.

Of course, it would be best to have everyone draw straws to see who gets first pick, but after that it would take care of itself.

If you set it up right, you could have players pick unit by unit, but you'd have to do one of three things:

6) You'd have to set up a template for each team, and then create enough units with almost identical stats for everyone so that the first picker wouldn't always get the best units from each tier. While having identical armies does have its drawbacks, it would be cool to set up a battle where everyone is on a completely even playing field, and everything is determined my strategy (with a little bit of help from the dice gods, of course).

7) Move the previous first picker to the back of the line after each round of picking. This works best when you have the same amount of unit tiers as players. I'll explain it a little more visually.

First round: 1 2 3
Second round: 2 3 1
Third round: 3 1 2

This way, everyone has a best, worst, and middle unit from each tier.

8) Screw balance, and have fun with the game. If people don't like the game because they don't win, they shouldn't be playing BrikWars. One team may be more powerful, but through a combination of everyone wanting them dead and sheer luck of the dice, anyone can lose.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Tue May 21, 2013 5:18 pm

aoffan23 wrote:One team may be more powerful, but through a combination of everyone wanting them dead... anyone can lose.


This happens to me pretty regularly. Since I know the rules best, whenever I'm winning, it's usually interpreted as me somehow keeping my friends out of the loop and cheating. Still, I end up telling them what they need to do (and roll) to have a chance at beating me.

Once all anyone had was 4 guys each, and somehow by turn 3 I was at full manpower and everyone else was down to one or two guys. That's when we had one of my roommates come in with a giant space-skull squidship to level the field. Even with all of us making an alliance against it, nobody had a chance. Good times!
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Kirillyos » Wed May 22, 2013 12:14 am

Pwnerade wrote: War is never balanced and fair in real life, so why should Brikwars be?


Yeah, I know - I'm a vetran, and I've got my share of war scars. Assymetrical warfare is pretty much all we do these days. Still, it's nice to have an idea in BkikWars terms of what kind of resources various scale forces and conflicts involve.

Pwnerade wrote:If all battles were perfectly balanced, then there would be no thrilling tales of small units holding against all odds.


And people would just look at us funny for shouting "SPAAAAARTAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

Pwnerade wrote:There would also be no hilarious instances of small units getting steamrolled by huge tanks.


Image

After losing hos job to Obama's economic bungling, Wang could only afford the one minifig, unlike his friends with the tanks, who were still living in their moms' basements.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Kirillyos » Wed May 22, 2013 11:25 am

aoffan23 wrote:
stubby wrote:
Kirillyos wrote:Anyway, I have no problem inviting them over and sharing, but how to best distribute the LEGO I have for maximum Brikwars awesomeness, especially the MOCs I've already built begore they arrive? Do I have each of us pick a unit in turn, like a kickball lineup? Do I give everyone an allotment of points and "auction off" the pre-made units? Do I make stat cards and then have everyone draw stat cards at random?

Cases like this, best thing to do is toss together roughly-balanced armies in advance and then let the guests pick between them when they show up. It saves a lot of time and gives you a chance to put together less random groups than what you get from letting everyone pick units one at a time.


This is great advice. Just take whatever units you have, and divide them up into however many balanced groups. Put the most heavily armoured vehicle in one group, and give the other groups the best anti-tank weapons. Give one group the biggest horde of minifigs, and give the other groups the best machine guns or area of effect weapons. Give one group <a href='http://tinyurl.com/y42zurt'>alot</a> of Shielded units, and give the rest of the groups multi-die weapons. You get the idea.

Of course, it would be best to have everyone draw straws to see who gets first pick, but after that it would take care of itself.

If you set it up right, you could have players pick unit by unit, but you'd have to do one of three things:

6) You'd have to set up a template for each team, and then create enough units with almost identical stats for everyone so that the first picker wouldn't always get the best units from each tier. While having identical armies does have its drawbacks, it would be cool to set up a battle where everyone is on a completely even playing field, and everything is determined my strategy (with a little bit of help from the dice gods, of course).

7) Move the previous first picker to the back of the line after each round of picking. This works best when you have the same amount of unit tiers as players. I'll explain it a little more visually.

First round: 1 2 3
Second round: 2 3 1
Third round: 3 1 2

This way, everyone has a best, worst, and middle unit from each tier.

8) Screw balance, and have fun with the game. If people don't like the game because they don't win, they shouldn't be playing BrikWars. One team may be more powerful, but through a combination of everyone wanting them dead and sheer luck of the dice, anyone can lose.


Those do sound like some good ideas. I think I might try to divide up the available forces by faction type and either let everyone pick whatever one best suits them or assign them at random.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Kirillyos » Wed May 22, 2013 12:52 pm

33. Another question: How are space battles typically handled? I recall the rulebook mentioned a "sporting" flight ceiling of 5" for aircraft, but what about units in orbit? How are orbital bombardments handled?

34. What about or ground-to-space attacks?

Image

35. How about planet-to-other-planet attacks?
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Wed May 22, 2013 1:29 pm

There'd normally be massive penalties for being out of range, but i'd waive them in favor of awesome.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Kirillyos » Wed May 22, 2013 1:37 pm

IVhorseman wrote:There'd normally be massive penalties for being out of range, but i'd waive them in favor of awesome.


Perhaps balanced with a massive bonus for aiming at a planet-sized target?
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