Newbish n00b questions, MkII

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby loafofcheese » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:25 am

IVhorseman wrote:I wouldn't, on something that I thought you explained nicely when talking about the Phaleks: they use space flight even though they're not necessarily in space. Instead of saying flying stuff can be armored, broaden the defenition of what space flight actually means.

As I see it, Space flight simply means unlimited flight maneuvering in whatever form it comes from. Be it rocket thrusters, anti-grav fields or ancient magic, it allows something of any weight to fly around in any direction and stay there. That said, I think that unlimited flight maneuvering covers all bases and allows for land-based weapon and armor limits.

So If I wanted an armored helicopter, I would have to purchase it as if it was a spaceship?
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:38 am

I still think anti-gravity should be its own kind of movement.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:53 am

I might just change it to something like "Flying creations that need to keep moving forward in order to stay in the air, such as biplanes, parrots, and hang gliders, are grounded if they're ever reduced to Half Speed by any means, including Armor Plating." In any other case, Armor on flying creations is just fine.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:01 pm

Gungnir wrote:I still think anti-gravity should be its own kind of movement.


That's pretty much exactly what I'm suggesting.

I think the barrier comes down to weather armored helicopters are okay.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:33 pm

IVhorseman wrote:I think the barrier comes down to weather armored helicopters are okay.


"The Apache is heavily armored on all sides. Some areas are also surrounded by Kevlar soft armor for extra protection. The cockpit is protected by layers of reinforced armor and bulletproof glass. According to Boeing, every part of the helicopter can survive 12.7-mm rounds, and vital engine and rotor components can withstand 23-mm fire."

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That looks like a vote for yes, at least for battles after about 1975 or so.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:40 pm

A tad earlier than that...

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The Mi-24 fuselage body is heavily armored and can resist impacts from 12.7 mm (0.50 in) rounds from all angles. The titanium rotor blades are also resistant to 12.7 mm rounds.The cockpit is protected by ballistic-resistant windscreens and a titanium-armored tub. The cockpit and crew compartment are overpressurized to protect the crew in NBC conditions.


First flight: 19 September 1969
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:06 pm

Through camouflage, misdirection, and the obsessive-compulsive drive to minimize his own presence in any situation, a Scout's Stealth gives him one more point of cover than logic would suggest. In a completely exposed position, a Scout has an effective 1/3 cover (-1 Attack Penalty for anyone targeting him). In 1/3 cover, Stealth makes it 2/3 (-2 to be attacked), and in 2/3 cover the Scout is effectively completely invisible (-5 to enemy attacks, if they even know he's there at all).

If a Scout is invisible to all enemies at the beginning of his turn (that is, he has at least 2/3 cover from any enemy unit on the field capable of spotting him), he can use his Action to make his Stealth complete and be considered Hidden.


unlike a regular Shield, the Heavy Shield can be positioned as passive cover against all types of attacks, in addition to being used to Parry. It can provide cover either by itself, in conjunction with other cover elements on the field


So can a Scout use Stealth to hide behind their own Heavy Shield?
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:45 pm

Maybe if he doesn't take the shield with him? Like props it up or something to act as a decoy while he sneaks off.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:02 pm

How would attacking equipment that the enemy is holding or wearing (weapons, shields, armor?) work?
I assume size penalties would be involved?
Is it measured by inches and assigned SL based on it's size and composition like larger creations?
Would a halberd (2-handed weapon) be SR2 and AR 2d10?

What about shooting explosives to get them to blow up in the enemy's hands?

How would resistances or immunities to particular types of damage or effects (fire, electricity, acid, magic, radiation, etc) work?

On the flipside, how should I stat a vulnerability (Superman vs. Kryptonite; Vampires vs. silver, crucifixes, sunlight, garlic, etc)?

How should I stat a "regenerating unit" (assume SR 2 or higher), like a troll?

(I'm currently making a lot of fantasy "monster" units, so it'd be good to have "powers" that aren't as broad or flashy as the SN Dice).
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:38 am

stubby wrote:I might just change it to something like "Flying creations that need to keep moving forward in order to stay in the air, such as biplanes, parrots, and hang gliders, are grounded if they're ever reduced to Half Speed by any means, including Armor Plating." In any other case, Armor on flying creations is just fine.


It seems Armor Plating from the Weapons section is equivalent to Heavy Armor (Shielded, Half-Speed). What if we were to make a "light armor" plating version for larger creations like we have for minifigs and horses? We could lower the cost to CP = Size.

Say, a +2 Armor for the area covered (as per Minifig light armor)

Or perhaps bump it up by one AR (1d6 becomse 1d10 [like the horse], 1d10 becomes 2d10) - it'd be the inverse of "weak points".

Also, we could try charging a premium on armor for flying units, like we already charge for flight propulsion. Then it'd still be possible, but very expensive.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:49 am

Voin wrote:It seems Armor Plating from the Weapons section is equivalent to Heavy Armor (Shielded, Half-Speed). What if we were to make a "light armor" plating version for larger creations like we have for minifigs and horses?

We already have it, it's Structure Level. The Light Body Armor just takes a minifig from SL:1/2 to SL:1. You can set a creation's (or part of a Creation's) Structure Level directly.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:58 am

Voin wrote:How would attacking equipment that the enemy is holding or wearing (weapons, shields, armor?) work?
I assume size penalties would be involved?
Is it measured by inches and assigned SL based on it's size and composition like larger creations?
Would a halberd (2-handed weapon) be SR2 and AR 2d10?

All minifig equipment items are treated as size zero for targeting: -2 to hit. They're knocked away rather than destroyed, for the most part.

Voin wrote:How would resistances or immunities to particular types of damage or effects (fire, electricity, acid, magic, radiation, etc) work?

On the flipside, how should I stat a vulnerability (Superman vs. Kryptonite; Vampires vs. silver, crucifixes, sunlight, garlic, etc)?

These are scenario specific. There's no point in statting a vulnerability to kryptonite unless it's a scenario with kryptonite in it, and then it's not about stats so much as scenario design.

Voin wrote:How should I stat a "regenerating unit" (assume SR 2 or higher), like a troll?

Which stats are you asking about here? Cost? I'm not really sure what you're asking. Do you mean what rules would you use?

All this stuff was covered in BW2001, if you want to see how it was done in previous editions. Regeneration is on page 105.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:14 am

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:How would attacking equipment that the enemy is holding or wearing (weapons, shields, armor?) work?
I assume size penalties would be involved?
Is it measured by inches and assigned SL based on it's size and composition like larger creations?
Would a halberd (2-handed weapon) be SR2 and AR 2d10?

All minifig equipment items are treated as size zero for targeting: -2 to hit. They're knocked away rather than destroyed, for the most part.


With an exception for fragile objects, which includes explosives. Don't even bother with a damage roll if you hit the explosive directly, the explosion is the only damage the fig would be taking anyway.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:44 am

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:How would resistances or immunities to particular types of damage or effects (fire, electricity, acid, magic, radiation, etc) work?

On the flipside, how should I stat a vulnerability (Superman vs. Kryptonite; Vampires vs. silver, crucifixes, sunlight, garlic, etc)?

These are scenario specific. There's no point in statting a vulnerability to kryptonite unless it's a scenario with kryptonite in it, and then it's not about stats so much as scenario design.


That makes sense - otherwise somebody could give themselves a huge point discount taking weakness to things that aren't in the scenario.

On the other hand, fire is a pretty commonly-present battlefield element across nearly all genres (and if it isn't, then somebody's doing it wrong). I think it'd be interesting to see units that are more or less susceptible to it.

What do you think would be a good negative CP value for "Weak against________"? Then people could add it to units and fill in the blank to fit the scenario. It'd be especially good to offset the high cost of powerful units (i.e. shave a few CP off a Daemonlord by making him susceptible to silver and cold iron).

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:How should I stat a "regenerating unit" (assume SR 2 or higher), like a troll?

Which stats are you asking about here? Cost? I'm not really sure what you're asking. Do you mean what rules would you use?

All this stuff was covered in BW2001, if you want to see how it was done in previous editions. Regeneration is on page 105.


Ah, good point - I almost forgot about the advanced modules in the 2001 rules. Yeah, those regen rules seem sufficient for the troll unit I had in mind - a 2"+, AR 1d10 bruiser with a big ugly greatclub that should be a challenge for regular troopers to overcome. I'd give it some sort of discount for having weakness against fire, though.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:22 pm

Gonna play the devil's advocate here, but:
Image
The A-10's airframe was designed for durability, with measures such as 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of titanium armor to protect the cockpit and aircraft systems, enabling it to absorb a significant amount of damage and continue flying.
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