Newbish n00b questions, MkII

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:27 am

Gungnir wrote:
Voin wrote:One option would be to station in a narrow street or ravine, wall-to-wall - then the flank would be a lot less vulnerable.

At least until somebody chucks a grenade at them.


If by "grenade", you mean a Mk I explosive (minifig throwable), well, my buddy tried that. He had 2 Hero units, both with a "Mad Bomber" cliche, and the Grenadier specialty, and all their bombs did somewhere between "diddly" and "squat". In addition to Phalanx and March, my Triarii had heavy armor (ignores 1 die of damage), and Steady Footing, allowing them to resist 1" of knockback. The worst the grenades did was knock their shields out of their hands, and then it was a free move to simply pick them back up again.
Last edited by Voin on Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:02 am

That's why you roll the bomb underneath the shields.
And what the hell is a Mk 1 explosive? I've always used regular size1 bombs.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:20 pm

Voin wrote:Steady Footing, allowing them to resist 1" of knockback. The worst the grenades did was knock their shields out of their hands, and then is was a free move to simply pick them back up again.

I might adjust this to say, allows them to resist 1" of knockback from the other side of the Shield Wall. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to not be knocked over if an explosion happens in the middle of their group.

Gungnir wrote:That's why you roll the bomb underneath the shields.
And what the hell is a Mk 1 explosive? I've always used regular size1 bombs.

Or throw it over the top, which has a little better chance of not being blocked. There's not always enough room under a shield wall for a bomb to roll under.

A Mk 1 explosive is just the older editions' name for Size 1 bombs.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:32 pm

stubby wrote:I might adjust this to say, allows them to resist 1" of knockback from the other side of the Shield Wall. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to not be knocked over if an explosion happens in the middle of their group.


As written, the special ability works independently of shield walls or squad tactics, and I stand by that. I don't think there's any reason why a particularly sturdy character (especially when fantasy or sci-fi settings are involved) can't hold their ground solo. I've fought and trained with people IRL who were built like brick shithouses and were very good at not getting knocked over. Obviously, resisting concussive blasts from explosions is outside the realm of realistik human abilities, but minifigs tend to be a lot more resilient in scale, especially since their world is powered by action-movie/Looney-Tunes tropes.

You're welcome to adapt it in whatever way works best for your games, however, or even possibly integrate something similar into phalanx rules.

I do have one question about it, however - do you think the cost of 1 CP for it is balanced (trading move inches for resistance to Knockback, aka saving yourself from being disrupted and the 2" it would take to get up), or do you think the move cost/benefit balance each other out  numerically and I should make this a 0 CP option? On the one hand, you resist Knockback like a bigger creation. On the other hand, you don't get the other benefits of being big (extra armor, ability to wield bigger/extra weapons), and the move penalty affects you every turn.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:00 pm

Do you know what I'd actually do - if I was trying to stick to the idea of Triarii, then instead of saying that each individual soldier is more stable, I'd say that Triarii drill to brace for impacts together, taking impact as a group rather than as separate individuals. Instead of pushing over each minifig, you push the whole squad plate, and only an impact that can knock over the whole squad plate as a single object will manage to disrupt them.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:16 am

Perhaps - that doesn't sound like a bad idea. But I was asking in regards to the Steady Footing specialty in general - independent of specific unit types that it would be added to.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:57 pm

Seems munchkiny to me. I don't know, I can't work up much opinion about it. Doesn't seem to add any real flavor, just extra overhead to keep track of.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:55 pm

It's an optional fan-made specialty, so it's pretty much "take it or leave it". If there is any munchkiny aspect, it more-or-less balances itself out with the fact that the opponents are free to add that ability to their own units.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:48 pm

Yeah, I'm not saying don't use it. You asked my opinion and I just don't have much to say about it other than that it's kind of blah. Maybe I just can't think of good fluff to attach to it, but I can't really get excited about stability.

In the more general sense though, talking about munchkiny stuff --- If something is munchkiny, then letting other opponents use it too doesn't "balance" anything. I mean I guess two sides with the same ability are "balanced" tactically, if that's something you care about. But if you want to balance munchkinism, you do it by adding something that makes the game more fun, not by just adding more munchkinism.  Two munchkin teams instead of one is more munchkiny, not less.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:07 pm

For once, I'm with Stubby on this one. If your soldier stepped on a landmine, he should be blown sky-high, assuming he isn't just plain blown to bits.
Also, I don't think the Armored status should apply to explosions. Or it should at least only drop it one or two die sizes.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:31 pm

You're probably right, but it hasn't been a problem in my group, however. I suppose I'm fortunate to have a friend with a strong sense of fairness, maturity, good sportsmanship, and fun to play Brikwars with. We're still working out how all the different rules fit together (because he's new to it, and I'm still kinda rusty after coming back from a while of not having played), but even when we accidentally interpret a rule wrong or forget a rule, we just award a Benny to whoever that interpretation or forgetfulness didn't favor.

It's an interesting dynamic, really, because he's much better at math and calculating probabilities than I am (this is a guy who makes spreadsheets on the fly between turns), but I come from a more tactically-oriented background (being a veteran, and a scholar of military history, current warfare, as well as prototype developments in armaments) than he does. So I end up leading my battles with an eye toward tried-and-true historical tactics (like shield walls) using terrain to my advantage, combined-squad-tactics emulating disciplined (and successful) armies, etc., while he approaches battles with more mathematical consideration of how likely/unlikely a certain maneuver is going to work based on a bell-curve he graphed out in his head.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:19 am

Do you pay CP for non-explosive launcher payloads - something like "random rocks loaded into a catapult"? If so, how much? Is it like purchasing creations, with (Size" x Structure Level) CP?

What if the rock chunks aren't big enough to qualify for SL3? Plenty of LEGO catapults shoot SR 1" rocks or smaller.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:26 am

Gungnir wrote:For once, I'm with Stubby on this one. If your soldier stepped on a landmine, he should be blown sky-high, assuming he isn't just plain blown to bits.
Also, I don't think the Armored status should apply to explosions. Or it should at least only drop it one or two die sizes.


Well yes, I can see where you're coming from, but size-1 explosives have only 1d10 of damage to begin with. And I suppose it would depend on how grittily realistik your group wishes to have their Brikwars setting. Down-in-the-trenches WWI game? Explosives should be absolutely deadly. Madcap world of silly minifigs run by action movie Looney Tunes physics? Eh, walk it off, you pansy, it's just an explosion.

I mean, how many times do we see our summer blockbuster action heroes casually survive blasts that would tear a real human into a fine red mist? Look at how the Spartans took those grenades in 300. Besides, it's not a default thing any minifig can do - it's a custom specialty for particularly sturdy units - Dwarven Defenders, Futuristik Supersoldiers, etc.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:59 am

Voin wrote:Do you pay CP for non-explosive launcher payloads - something like "random rocks loaded into a catapult"? If so, how much? Is it like purchasing creations, with (Size" x Structure Level) CP?

What if the rock chunks aren't big enough to qualify for SL3? Plenty of LEGO catapults shoot SR 1" rocks or smaller.

The cost of rocks isn't CP, it's the opportunity cost of assigning the guys who have to load them into the catapult every round. Even though they have a tactical function (sort of), I think you're fine treating rocks as free surface elements.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:20 pm

So 1" rocks can still be SL3, despite not meeting the "maximum Structure Level equal to the Creation's Size" requirement?
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