Newbish n00b questions, MkII

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:09 pm

Voin wrote:Well, everybody has different play styles. Some people might actually enjoy "capture the enemies" scenarios,  especially where police and space police themes are involved.
I'm actually planning on making several "capture squads" for different tek levels to snatch-and-grab targets from secure locations.


Oh I'm definitely not mocking the play style, but I have a really hard time seeing where there'd actually be a functional in-game difference between dead and unconscious. Call them whatever you want, because it's just a hunk of plastic that has been disabled.

The Star Wars Ion Cannon example is about the only one where disabling something instead of outright breaking it is, but you can also do the same thing with component damage. Either way, that's a stunned weapon/engine/etc. as opposed to a stunned minifig, which is a can of worms i'm not ready to open yet.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:15 pm

IVhorseman wrote:Oh I'm definitely not mocking the play style, but I have a really hard time seeing where there'd actually be a functional in-game difference between dead and unconscious. Call them whatever you want, because it's just a hunk of plastic that has been disabled.

This is basically it. The old Stun rules just weren't fun. If you want to rule that minifigs are knocked out instead of dead, it's functionally the same as far as game mechanics go.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Battlegrinder » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:36 pm

Can an automatic pistol (size 1), be used in conjunction with an off hand weapon or a shield?
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:09 pm

Hmm, good question. We don't have official stats for one-handed fancy guns like machine pistols and sawed-off shotguns, but it seems like you could cook some up. I'd ask BrickSyd.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby loafofcheese » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:42 pm

Do you think we need some better rules for dogfighting, I want to be able to declare a danger zone action, then me and my opponent make swooshing noises with our starfighters and planes around the room and get to say things like "too close for missiles, i'm switching to guns" or "We have missile lock on red five". I think I might actually write a supplement for this.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:52 pm

Approved.

Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Battlegrinder » Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:14 pm

stubby wrote:Hmm, good question. We don't have official stats for one-handed fancy guns like machine pistols and sawed-off shotguns, but it seems like you could cook some up. I'd ask BrickSyd.


I've already worked up stats for a machine pistol: Size 1 Machine gun (Use 3, Range 5, 1d6 damage). I'm personally thinking that using it one-handed is fine, since I frequently issue them to officers and some elite troops in my army, and I've yet to have an opponent take issue with it.

I'll look into stating out some pistol sized flamers and shotguns as well. I imagine several people might be interested in putting such weapons to use.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:12 pm

Battlegrinder wrote:I've already worked up stats for a machine pistol: Size 1 Machine gun

I know, I was just fucking with you. It's still up to BrickSyd if he wants machine pistols in his game or not.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby loafofcheese » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:33 pm

Battlegrinder wrote:
stubby wrote:Hmm, good question. We don't have official stats for one-handed fancy guns like machine pistols and sawed-off shotguns, but it seems like you could cook some up. I'd ask BrickSyd.


I've already worked up stats for a machine pistol: Size 1 Machine gun (Use 3, Range 5, 1d6 damage). I'm personally thinking that using it one-handed is fine, since I frequently issue them to officers and some elite troops in my army, and I've yet to have an opponent take issue with it.

I'll look into stating out some pistol sized flamers and shotguns as well. I imagine several people might be interested in putting such weapons to use.

Pretty sure motorhead fan has stats for pistol flamer in his Phaleks, I think i helped him with them.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Battlegrinder » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:29 am

Voin wrote:No need to reinvent the wheel, bro - Size 1" weapons already fill that niche. A machine pistol/small SMG is a size 1" AutoGun. A sawn-off shotgun is a size 1" BlastGun. A flame-pistol is a Size 1" FlameThrower. A Size 1" Launcher is a grenade pistol.

I also highly suggest you check out the Bastard Weapons in chapter 8. A Bastard Gun is the standard rifle (or longbow, or blaster rifle, or other simple, 2-handed ranged weapon) from chapter 3. A Bastard AutoGun can be an assault rifle, or light machine gun (even IRL, the distinction can be a fuzzy one), or a really big SMG (think Tommygun). A Bastard FlameGun is a regular, minifig-sized flamethrower, a Bastard Blast-Gun is a regular, minifig-sized shotgun, a Bastard Bazooka is, well, a minifig-sized, shoulder-fired bazooka (or RPG-7, or some other such anti-armor weapon)

Once you get into the size 2", that's typically squad-level weapons that will require a platform to mount them on (or a Heavy trooper), and are best fired by teams of gunners. A size 2" AutoGun is a squad-support machine gun, a size 2" Gun can be an anti-materiel rifle (especially if coupled with a scope and 2 gunners to act as the sniper team).

Size 3" and higher are typically weapons mounted on vehicles or heavy emplacements - gunner teams become a must.



Yes, I'm aware of that. However, I think stubby decided to yank my chain a bit, and I'm really bad at detecting sarcasm.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:21 pm

Voin wrote:So is spaceflight officially counted as regular move now?

It's not official until it's in the book, but it's probably going in next time I visit that chapter.

Voin wrote:Not quite the same - component damage would still inflict physical damage. Ion cannons disable electronics without necessarily destroying the materiel. A marauding space pirate might want to commandeer an enemy ship without having half of it scrapped in the process.

I just wanted to know if the stun rules were actually nixed in 2010 play,  or if their status is more like "we don't really use them that much, go dig through the archives if you need them". Because the stun rules were where stubby directed me in response to my question about how to stat regenerating units.

Even component damage can be used for Stun, you just don't remove the pieces when they get "destroyed."

Here's the old rules:
BrikWars 2001 wrote:3.4.4 Getting Stunned
Certain conditions wear down a unit slowly rather than killing it outright.  Effects from concussions, fatigue, poison, disease, hunger, and low morale are all lumped under the single heading of Stun Damage.

Most Stun attacks only work on certain types of targets - living beings and electrical systems being the most commonly affected (although clever attacks may produce Stun effects in other targets - a MonkeyWrench in a giant Robot's gears, for instance).  If a unit takes more Stun Damage than its Armor, or a combination of Stun Damage and regular Damage that is more than its Armor, then the unit is Stunned or Exhausted.  A Stunned unit has half Power (round down, minimum 1) and takes a -50% Movement Penalty.  If a unit takes enough Stun Damage to Stun it when it is already Stunned, it is Disabled (in the case of machines) or Unconscious (in the case of living beings).  If a Disabled or Unconscious unit is Stunned a third time, then it is killed or destroyed.

A Stunned minifig generally crawls around on its stomach; an Unconscious minifig lies on its back.  This makes it easy to tell which minifigs are Stunned or Unconscious.  If for some reason you need your Stunned minifig to stagger around in an upright position, put one gray Pip next to it so that you don't forget that it's Stunned.

To recover from Stun Damage, roll a 1d6 at the end of the unit's turn.  On a roll of 69, an Unconscious or Disabled unit becomes merely Stunned, and a Stunned unit returns to normal.  If the unit rests for a full turn (this is automatic for Unconscious units), a roll of 5 will also be sufficient.

Electrical systems recover from Stun damage normally.  Purely mechanical systems cannot recover from Stun damage by themselves.  A minifig with the Mechanikal Ability specialty can repair one level of mechanical Stun damage if it works on the affected component for one full turn.

For BW2010 I'd just say skip the Stun stage and go straight to Disabled/Unconscious.
For Unconscious creatures, roll 1d6 or Skill at the end of each turn, whichever is higher. On a 69 or greater they recover 1" of Stun damage.
For Disabled creations and devices, roll 1d6 (or Operator Skill) at the end of each turn for each one. On a 69 or greater they recover 1" of Stun damage.

But I don't think these will be getting added to the "official" rules, because I don't want to tempt new players into adding a system with this much potential for slowing down the game with overhead bookkeeping.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:23 pm

Just one.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby loafofcheese » Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:44 am

Voin wrote:Does a Heavy suffer recoil when Compensating with a 2" weapon?


Brikwars 2010 wrote:Thanks to the Heavy's ability for Compensating, a Heavy can use Weapons as if he had a Size of 2" rather than the 1" of most normal minifigs, but only as long as he's standing still. This gives him the ability to lift, operate, and throw objects twice as large as a regular minifig might. Most Heavies use their Compensating ability to wield a Size 2" MachineGun, BlastGun, or other type of Ranged Weapon, but Compensating works on Melee Weapons as well. A Heavy can wield Heavy Weapons as if they were Hand Weapons, Two-Handed Weapons as if they were Heavy Weapons, and Size 3" or 4" Melee Weapons as if they were Two-Handed Weapons.

The disadvantage of Compensating is that the Heavy can't fire his oversized guns and hand weapons unless he has both feet planted firmly to the ground. On any turn in which the Heavy runs, jumps, Bails, uses an Angry Inch, or engages in any other type of Movement, he can't use any ability that requires the extra inch of Size from Compensating, although he may still take normal Actions like a regular Size 1" minifig.

No?


Voin wrote:How would a double weapon work? I'm talking about something like a quarterstaff or a double-bladed lightsabre beamsword. It's not a polearm like 2-Handed weapons are, so it typically isn't used with reach, but it's designed to have more impact than simply a pair of 1-handed weapons.

IVHorseman wrote:-A double-bladed energy-sword is a heavy melee weapon as a primary, but with a second blade attached at the end, it may also be treated as if it were a 2-handed weapon. It may only parry with the smaller end, however

That's his bonus material, but it works.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:55 pm


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That sounds like a free ability to me, especially considering how situational it is.

Voin wrote:If you really want to make the stats even grainier on the size, I can recommend IVhoresman's Big-ass weapons (he doesn't use CP in his stats, but I'd price them at +1, +2, and +3 CP for the +1, +2, and +3 bonuses, respectively).


Even though I find CP to be an abomination in general, big-ass weapons according to my rules are specifically designed to not need any CP to balance them out, since the increase in damage is offset by a higher use rating. In almost any situation, you're better off just using one of the base weapons, but if you're going to sperg over your desert eagle needing to do 1d6+3 damage, then go right ahead and bring that UR up to 69. You know what else has a UR of 69? a size 4 cannon, with 4d6 damage.

Essentially, big-ass weapons have existed as a trap for those who demand to re-invent the wheel for weapons that already exist. The only functional game advantage is that they're more portable.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:59 pm

IVhorseman wrote:You know what else has a UR of 69? a size 4 cannon, with 4d6 damage.

Yeah, but it costs more and can't be carried by a minifig. Both are benificial in different situations.
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