Newbish n00b questions, MkII

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:29 pm

I actually used to use a dropship with a frontal energy shield that temporarily increased structure level for the turn. Made ramming fun.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:13 pm

Voin wrote:- Do objects that get knocked back by an explosion (shrapnel) deal damage (if they're big enough to do at least one Mom of it)?

I guess they could, but seems rare. They'd have to be knocked back at least 4" for the MOM, so it'd be a 4d10 explosion at minimum, knocking them into an object that wasn't also knocked back by the explosion. Trample damage seems more likely.

Voin wrote:- Can range SN Dice be spent to extend or shorten a Scout's detection range (or emulate long-range scanners / sensor-jammers)

Sure.

Voin wrote:- Do Size 1 Explosives (1d10 bombs and rockets) count as Size 1" or Size 0 for determining if they overload a Field Hazard?

I'm assuming we're talking about Exposure Damage, since I don't think Size affects any of the other types. In that case it just depends on how large you made your physical Size 1 Explosive. Most of them are Size 0.

Voin wrote:- Does an army's full capabilities have to be made known to all participants at the start of a battle? Or can there be "surprises", as long as the player has the stats written down somewhere (for peer review after the battle) and paid the cost fair and square?

This is a judgment call depending on who you're playing with, and how munchkinny the surprises are. If you reveal a sword hidden under the passenger seat, that's straightforward; if you reveal that your Hero is secretly also a Medik and a Scout, then that's the kind of lame-ass shit that opponents probably would have objected to if they'd known about it.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:29 pm

So surprises have to be built? I feel like giving the actual stats for all visible units is mandatory, but if you reveal that your sportscar has a fold-out helicoptor rotor you don't have to tell anybody about the secret move speed until the rotor is there.

What about secret rocket payloads? As in "it wasn't just an explosion - the survivors are laced with LSD!" or something? I feel like that's reserved for heroic feats for the most part, and if you have a rocket with a special payload you have to announce that beforehand otherwise
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:44 pm

Encouraging clever builds =  good
Encouraging munchinking on stats = bad
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:08 pm

Actually you know what, the better way to do it is this: If you reveal something that you kept secret at the beginning, your opponent can reject it for any reason. That's it. So, stick to stuff that won't get rejected, and opponents who won't reject it, and everything should be fine.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Battlegrinder » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:19 pm

Building on the above, is it ok to go into battle with some portion of your CP unspent, and then use that unspent portion to buy more units later on?
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:19 pm

I suppose it'd be easier if there were an impartial third party to referee the game. Then the players could just turn in their army rosters to the judge before the battle, make sure everything is on the level, and pop the surprises as they come.

Unfortunately,  there don't seem to be that many people where I live besides me and one of my friends who are interested in Brikwars.

On the bright side, he and I tend to have a good sense of fair play, so a referee isn't really needed. Though I do on occasion have to bring up the point that rather than spending 15 minutes looking up an obscure rule, we can just assign a common-sense measure to a situation or resolve it with a WISG roll.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:26 pm

The "unspent reserve CP" seems to be legit as long as all players agree to it beforehand. My friend whom I battle with even suggested a system that goes something like "hold X% of CP in reserve (but with pre-built units). Then, as battle conditions change,  you can call in that CP worth of infanty, cavalry, or whatever other reserve units you have."

So for example, a handful of CP might be worth 1 horse and rider or 2 footsoldiers. What specifically that CP goes toward isn't set in stone until after I call them in, but they have to be pre-built so as to not slow down gameplay.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:35 am

* Can Current Fields powered by a creation (like a tractor beam from a spaceship) be used to pull the creation closer to bigger things as well as pulling smaller things toward the creation? Like a spaceship pulling itself into an asteroid cave to hide when it runs out of move. Or is that better suited to SN Move Dice?

* Are Hazard Fields powered by a creation always in contact with the creation, or is there some leeway for "projecting" them some distance away?

* How much CP would it cost to deploy a modular package of parts for a Mechanik to assemble into a structure depending on what the battle situation calls for? I'm thinking crates of parts that are kinda useless by themselves, but then with a Mechanik's special touch become a jeep (cockpit + wheels + light gun), tank (cockpit + treads + heavy gun), bomber (cockpit + wings + bomb bay), etc. The obvious tradeoff for any discount (and flexibility of what machines you field) is that the vehicles don't come onto the battlefield ready to roll - several rounds of assembly is required.

* Can big creations with bigger weapons carry smaller creations inside of them for the purpose of Gathering Power via Teamwork? Something like a Size 8" Space Gunship carrying a Size 3" Antimatter reactor within its cargo hold to help power the ridiculous amount of weapons on its surface.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:55 am

The answer to all of these: Sure, why not?

As for the CP price of vehicle packages, I don't think there is one. You could price it as a size whatever" random object, but one of the inherent advantages of a mechanik is that he builds from whatever spare parts he finds. If that includes parts that just-so-happen to form a jeep, then so be it, but mechanix serve as a timer incentive to keep your opponents turns as short as possible.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:00 am

Of course deploying vehicles in separate, tightly-packed, pre-assembled chunks may be a necessity if, say, you want to cram a large vehicle into a landing craft too small to transport it in full size (like cramming a truck's wheels into it's cargo bed, then popping them back on once you make planetfall). Just make sure to establish a beachhead with more immediately battle-ready units first.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:14 pm

Voin wrote:* Can Current Fields powered by a creation (like a tractor beam from a spaceship) be used to pull the creation closer to bigger things as well as pulling smaller things toward the creation? Like a spaceship pulling itself into an asteroid cave to hide when it runs out of move. Or is that better suited to SN Move Dice?

Sure, I think. It'd just be putting a current field on itself. Whether this is better or worse than SN Move Dice depends on which better matches the fluff you made up to explain how tractor beams work in your Kanon.

Voin wrote:* Are Hazard Fields powered by a creation always in contact with the creation, or is there some leeway for "projecting" them some distance away?

My usual solution for projecting stuff is to start with a ranged weapon and add the Field stats as an added effect or replacement to the damage. That gives you good baseline stats for attack rolls and such.

I used to have a conversion table between Damage/Effect and Use and Range that made this easier; maybe I need to figure out where I put that, and resurrect it in a 2010-friendly form.

Voin wrote:* How much CP would it cost to deploy a modular package of parts for a Mechanik to assemble into a structure depending on what the battle situation calls for? I'm thinking crates of parts that are kinda useless by themselves, but then with a Mechanik's special touch become a jeep (cockpit + wheels + light gun), tank (cockpit + treads + heavy gun), bomber (cockpit + wings + bomb bay), etc. The obvious tradeoff for any discount (and flexibility of what machines you field) is that the vehicles don't come onto the battlefield ready to roll - several rounds of assembly is required.

This is a tricky call. Discounts can be easily abused, especially if you're in a siege situation where you know you're just waiting around for the first couple of turns, and you don't lose anything by spending turns on assembly. I think this one has to be scenario-specific.

Voin wrote:* Can big creations with bigger weapons carry smaller creations inside of them for the purpose of Gathering Power via Teamwork? Something like a Size 8" Space Gunship carrying a Size 3" Antimatter reactor within its cargo hold to help power the ridiculous amount of weapons on its surface.

I'm leaning against this one. Unless you can find a way to make the reactor interesting gameplay-wise, it's just a size 8" ship with size 11" stats. If all you want to do is break the power limit rules, then just break them, don't waste time trying to legitimize it with rules lawyery.

At minimum, I'd suggest that the 3" reactors should be external rather than internal, so that they can be blown up or stolen or some kind of gameplay potential interesting enough to justify having them exist in the first place.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:24 pm

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:* Can big creations with bigger weapons carry smaller creations inside of them for the purpose of Gathering Power via Teamwork? Something like a Size 8" Space Gunship carrying a Size 3" Antimatter reactor within its cargo hold to help power the ridiculous amount of weapons on its surface.

I'm leaning against this one. Unless you can find a way to make the reactor interesting gameplay-wise, it's just a size 8" ship with size 11" stats. If all you want to do is break the power limit rules, then just break them, don't waste time trying to legitimize it with rules lawyery.

At minimum, I'd suggest that the 3" reactors should be external rather than internal, so that they can be blown up or stolen or some kind of gameplay potential interesting enough to justify having them exist in the first place.


I don't know, this is more or less how I treat vehicles that i've built exposable engines into. Blowing it up has the added effect of creating a massive explosion as well as completely de-powering whatever creation it is attached to. I did this with my big yellow tank in a battle against Roc77, and we decided that the turret could still be turned and fired but the vehicle had to come grinding to a halt. I didn't have the engine added as a way to break or extend power limits, but I had one built in and figured it ought to have a cool effect.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:09 am

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:* Can Current Fields powered by a creation (like a tractor beam from a spaceship) be used to pull the creation closer to bigger things as well as pulling smaller things toward the creation? Like a spaceship pulling itself into an asteroid cave to hide when it runs out of move. Or is that better suited to SN Move Dice?

Sure, I think. It'd just be putting a current field on itself. Whether this is better or worse than SN Move Dice depends on which better matches the fluff you made up to explain how tractor beams work in your Kanon.


With, of course, the hazard of crash damage for careening into a big thing uncontrollably.

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:* Are Hazard Fields powered by a creation always in contact with the creation, or is there some leeway for "projecting" them some distance away?

My usual solution for projecting stuff is to start with a ranged weapon and add the Field stats as an added effect or replacement to the damage. That gives you good baseline stats for attack rolls and such.

I used to have a conversion table between Damage/Effect and Use and Range that made this easier; maybe I need to figure out where I put that, and resurrect it in a 2010-friendly form.


Yes, please!

IVhorseman wrote:
stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:* Can big creations with bigger weapons carry smaller creations inside of them for the purpose of Gathering Power via Teamwork? Something like a Size 8" Space Gunship carrying a Size 3" Antimatter reactor within its cargo hold to help power the ridiculous amount of weapons on its surface.

I'm leaning against this one. Unless you can find a way to make the reactor interesting gameplay-wise, it's just a size 8" ship with size 11" stats. If all you want to do is break the power limit rules, then just break them, don't waste time trying to legitimize it with rules lawyery.

At minimum, I'd suggest that the 3" reactors should be external rather than internal, so that they can be blown up or stolen or some kind of gameplay potential interesting enough to justify having them exist in the first place.


I don't know, this is more or less how I treat vehicles that i've built exposable engines into. Blowing it up has the added effect of creating a massive explosion as well as completely de-powering whatever creation it is attached to. I did this with my big yellow tank in a battle against Roc77, and we decided that the turret could still be turned and fired but the vehicle had to come grinding to a halt. I didn't have the engine added as a way to break or extend power limits, but I had one built in and figured it ought to have a cool effect.


Well yes, obviously this isn't going to be a something-for-nothing sort of deal. A size 8" creation would already have power 16. We can consider that "safe" power, provided by a stable source, no more susceptible to damage than a creation already is. I'd say for something like a reactor (a creation with the exclusive purpose of providing power, rather than say, an APC rolled up the cargo ramp that had jumper-cables going from it to the ship), the reactor should be treated as an explosive of its size (and of course, cost CP according to SizexSL as usual. That means that boarding actions (or blowing enough of the ship) can make it explode.

Also, I'm working on a "internal damage" table for ships and other large vehicles - it seems rather bland that a ship can take enough damage to be reduced to half effective size, but no random redshirt inside gets killed by an exploding panel. The idea will be to allow attackers to forgo regular, boring critical hits in exchange for more interesting effects like starting electrical fires, causing coolant leaks, and disabling artificial gravity.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby IVhorseman » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:30 am

Voin wrote:Also, I'm working on a "internal damage" table for ships and other large vehicles - it seems rather bland that a ship can take enough damage to be reduced to half effective size, but no random redshirt inside gets killed by an exploding panel. The idea will be to allow attackers to forgo regular, boring critical hits in exchange for more interesting effects like starting electrical fires, causing coolant leaks, and disabling artificial gravity.


Mmmmm, nice. Good idea tastes so good.

Minifigs already get to overskill to add an extra die to the attack roll, but being able to add that die into more interesting effects like movement speed and skill reductions on creations further on the living end of the spectrum, while disabling controls or weapons or attacking crew members directly would also be pretty interesting.

I think allowing a shot to directly target a minifig inside a vehicle could be a little too brutal, but being able to expose pieces for a second shot aimed at an exposed pilot is another story entirely. You might be able to justify it with explosive weapons, where an overskilled shot means that the round punctured straight through an outer level of armor and can explode inside of a crew compartment or something, but even that sounds like it might be ripe for abuse. It is a crit after all though, so maybe the abuse is okay?
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