Tzan wrote:Quantumsurfer wrote:I generally agree with TzanWarhead wrote:I agree with QuantumSmurfer.
I agree with Warhead.
2010 Rulebook wrote:Half Minds
A Programmed Creature is limited in its ability to make complex strategic decisions, and instead follows a simple set of behaviors. Simple Creatures are given a list of behaviors at the beginning of the battle, and may only behave in accordance with those instructions. A Simple behavior must be fairly specific: “Move to the nearest wounded allies and attempt to heal them” or “Stay close to the nearest allied troops and fire at enemy combatants” are fine Simple behaviors; “Defeat all enemies” and “Win the battle” are not. Random animals and wildlife are often made Simple for efficiency’s sake, with short behaviors like “flee from any nearby threat” or “if it's nearby and looks edible, try to eat it.”
While not technically Creatures, traps and mechanized defense systems are often given Simple behaviors as well, such as "fire at anything in range and moving" or "if intelligent life is detected, release deadly neurotoxin gas."
A Programmed Creature is Useful as long as it has a Program to execute. Deleting the program or tricking it into a paradox can cause the Creature to go haywire.
Examples: Kill-bots, golems, summoned elementals, guard dogs, mind-control victims, bureaucrats, sheep
Battlegrinder wrote:If your target is that big, the to-hit bonus from being a big target should be all you need, and if by some freak chance you miss that, tracking the missed shot should still let you hit it (and plus, even if it is mobile, it still won't be going fast). And super-massive vehicles are so rare, making up rules for a special weapon to counter them is a waste of time. And worst off all, any missile large enough to do reasonable amounts of damage to a super-unit would be so large, the target and/or its escorts would likely be able to shoot it down before it got close.
Battlegrinder wrote:If you really want to kill a superheavy unit, there are way better weapons to use. I'm working on stating out some commandos who's sole job will be to charge up to tanks and other vehicles, rip open the hatches, and give the occupants some free grenades (and then stick the hatches back on and commandeer the tank ), but if you don't want to do it the manly way, component damaging the guns and wheels is also a good solution.
Voin wrote:Oh yes - on the actual tactically reasonable side of things, I've been kicking around a few "breaching squad" ideas myself.
Voin wrote:I was actually considering making a "smart missile" that would have a charging weapon on the front for breaking through armor/bunkers (maybe even penis up the CP to make it Armor Piercing via SN d12) and a big ol' thruster for getting to the target quickly and cheaply.
Bragallot wrote:Just ask Silverdream. He decides what's true and right, and what someone said or meant at some point, even if they didn't. Clearly he is the most suitable person for fixing this mess.
Bluefog wrote:I mean, I could just throw my feces at you and my feelings would be conveyed adequately.
Battlegrinder wrote:Voin wrote:Oh yes - on the actual tactically reasonable side of things, I've been kicking around a few "breaching squad" ideas myself.
Not reasonable: "Son, I want you to charge toward that massive, heavily armed tank surrounded by ground troops and light vehicles, putting you in the line of fire for dozens of guns that can easily kill you. Provided you survive that, you'll need to climb up to the tank's hatches while wearing massive, movement reducing body armor, still under fire from anyone in range, and several people who aren't. After that, you'll need to pry open the tanks hatch, and toss this explosive inside. Then, jump into the tank, kill anyone who survived the grenades, conduct field repairs on the controls in the event they were damaged in the fighting, repair the hatch if you've got the time, then drive the tank through the enemy forces (who are now throwing everything they've got at you) and back to our own lines. You'll likely need to fight off several counter-boardings along the way. Good luck, we're counting on you."
Voin wrote:That's... not quite what I had in mind. Said breaching squads would not be just anti-tank, but be used for all-around boarding of hardened enemy structures. Their load-out would include something like:
Voin wrote:6. A reasonably fast vehicle (to shelter the squad) with a battering ram (charging weapon) and a boarding ramp that would deploy directly after the battering ram penetrates the outer shell of the target. I might even use IVHorseman's "Assault Tank" idea and make the vehicle have 4d10 armor in the front, and 2d10 in the back (since retreat isn't an option).
7. Explosives (of course) for softening up the target.
8. BlastGuns for close-up fighting against tightly-grouped enemy crew - may even be mounted version with Heavy operating behind a shield.
9. Decoy drones to keep the target busy and use up its inches of Armor plating and/or Shield Generators.
10. Poison sprayers - like flamethrowers, good for killing infantry while leaving material largely undamaged, but won't spread out of control like flames. Breaching team may need environment suits if deploying these.
11. Random tools (Drills, prybars, buzz-saws, etc).
12. and maybe even this thing I came up with:
The crew themselves would consist of a good mix of Scouts (for sneaking and disabling traps), Engineers (for removing enemy armor plating and kitbashing new controls to take over), Pilots (for piloting breaching vehicle and then the new acquisition if need be), Gunners/Heavies (for manning guns on the way in, obviously, and taking control of new systems), and possibly an Officer to coordinate them. If they're going after a high-priority target (like a Command Vessel) , I may assign them SuperNatural Technomancer (or whatever the appropriate equivalent would be in the setting) to take control of enemy systems.
Anyway, that's just some ideas I had off the top of my head, and this mix has yet to be tested in large-scale combat (though when I get to that, I'll let y'all know how they do).
This is by no means the only or best way of getting the breaching function done (and will probably be quite pricey, CP-wise). If anyone has other ideas on this, by all means, let them be heard.
Battlegrinder wrote:That was what my squad is going to be doing, not what I though your's was. Sorry for the confusion.
Battlegrinder wrote:6. For the vehicle, I'd suggest swapping out the battering ram for explosive charges of some kind (I'm pretty someone's worked up rules for shaped charges at some point). Blasting through a wall will be much more effective than just knocking a hole in it, since it will likely make a bigger hole, and stands a better chance of killing a few people inside. Sending a scout in to plant explosive charges right by the wall might be an even easier way, but building the lego equivalent of the Caestus Assault Ram is probably the more Brikwars solution.
Battlegrinder wrote:7. Using explosive inside the target might not be a wise idea. Given how small the interiors of even the largest vehicles/buildings are, you stand a good chance of killing your own squad (and if its so huge that you won't risk killing your own guys, then you should be able to get regular troops inside pretty easily).
Battlegrinder wrote:8. Make sure to bring some melee weapons along too. Blastguns have a very high friendly fire risk.
Battlegrinder wrote:9. You proably don't need decoy drones. Just have the rest of your units outside blast away at exposed components.
Battlegrinder wrote:10. Good idea, but the average bunker or star cruiser won't be all the flammable anyway, so flamethrowers might be OK. Plus, poison clouds will make it hard for you to send regular troops to back up your breaching squad.
Battlegrinder wrote:11. Unless you have a medix or mechanik, don’t waste the points on those.
12. Cool idea, but I think a regular grenade would do just as well. I don’t really see much use for such a specialized weapon.
Battlegrinder wrote:As for
personalpersonnel, remember that you can purchase multiple traits for the same unit, which will be cheaper than sending in 2 specialists. And you shouldn't need more than 2 or 3 guys to secure the average (or even an above average) target. I can think of only 1 or 2 units that might take more than that, and you won’t be running into either of them. If you somehow do end up fighting something that big, I’d suggest you go with regular troops for the most part, as you’ll need a lot of guys to successful storm on (also, I’d replace the technomancer with someone who can teleport in more of your own troops. The extra manpower will be much more valuable than an overcosted mechanik).
Battlegrinder wrote:Here’s a link to a forum battle revolving around a unit big enough to actually launch a boarding assault against. You might learn a lot from it (keep in mind that the tank in question is, to my knowledge, the biggest tank to ever be deployed).
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