Combined Attacks and Deflection

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Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby AZKAMAT » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:54 pm

Just thought I'd ask how the deflection rules for heavy armor interact with the combined attacks rule. For example, five cops with pistols shoot at a bank robber making for the getaway car from the bank exit. All 5 hit, and each hit contributes 1D6 damage. So does the Deflection cancel out all five dice despite it being a combined attack or just 1 of the dice from the combined damage pool?
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby AnnoyedZebra » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:57 am

I'm pretty sure it does 0d6 of damage. the little +1's on regular minifig guns are so that if you combine fire enough they add up to be a big enough number to kill the armoured guy
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby stubby » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:14 am

0d6. None of those guns are going to pierce bulletproof armor unless one of the cops rolls Overskill or uses a Benny.
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby sahasrahla » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:19 am

oh damn, i've been playing it wrong this whole time lol
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby AZKAMAT » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:07 pm

stubby wrote:0d6. None of those guns are going to pierce bulletproof armor unless one of the cops rolls Overskill or uses a Benny.


Common sense suggested it but the Combined Damage wording left it unclear with me. Thanks.

sahasrahla wrote:oh damn, i've been playing it wrong this whole time lol


I was just flat out confused on how to handle the rules so I didn't use them. Just using extra dice to represent armor worked fine if you're like me.
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby sahasrahla » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:34 pm

so in that case, is there any point at all in giving a minifig heavy armor and a shield?
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby AZKAMAT » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:54 pm

sahasrahla wrote:so in that case, is there any point at all in giving a minifig heavy armor and a shield?


You mean after changing the rules to just makes heavy armor give bonus armor dice? Yeah. If you add one humble D6 on a minifig you're getting an extra shot at a critical success and reducing the odds of a crit-fail from 1/6 to 1/36. I should probably add that I've always used the super old rules where minifigs actually roll 1D6 for armor, since I found the randomness more fun.

Honestly I found this style of play more enjoyable. Instead of taking a die away from a player in a way they can't stop, you're letting the other player gain another die to play with and hope for a 6 and know the dread of a 1. Another problem I came across is that if you use the 2010 shielding rules it can mess with other homebrew rules you might want to add. For instance, say you want represent a powerful arbalest in a game. You stat it to be like a normal crossbow but give it Damage 1D8 (because obviously you've got fancy dice at this point). Now an arbalest is a really powerful weapon, but versus something that's shielded it's only marginally better than a normal crossbow. I know overskill dice are supposed to mitigate the dependence on multiple-damage-dice weapons which shielded enemies necessitate, but there's an issue with that too. That issue is that higher skill units like Skill 1D8 Elites or 1D10 Heroes will actually have a harder time dealing damage against Shielded simply because their chance for getting a crit and overskilling is lower than for 1D6. Having you better guys somehow be WORSE than the scrubs was always something that seemed to defy even logik, which was another reason I just fudged up my own rules.

Although it really just depends on how you homebrew the thing.

Do you play a lot of medieval?
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby stubby » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:40 am

sahasrahla wrote:so in that case, is there any point at all in giving a minifig heavy armor and a shield?

Sure. The shield gives you the chance to be protected against a second die of damage, which are pretty common if your opponent knows what he or she is doing (see the "Fighting Minifigs with Deflection" callout at the end of 3.3: Bodily Protection).

AZKAMAT wrote:Another problem I came across is that if you use the 2010 shielding rules it can mess with other homebrew rules you might want to add. For instance, say you want represent a powerful arbalest in a game. You stat it to be like a normal crossbow but give it Damage 1D8 (because obviously you've got fancy dice at this point). Now an arbalest is a really powerful weapon, but versus something that's shielded it's only marginally better than a normal crossbow.

There's a lot of variety in arbalests, so it depends what flavor you're going for - but the Weapon Mods at the end of Chapter 8 might be what you're looking for here. A High Powered + Safety crossbow with double damage but half firing speed might do the job, or you could house-rule in the Armor Piercing ability from 3.1 Close Combat Weapons (1d6 AP vs armored opponents if fired with both hands).

(Note that there's currently some conflict between the versions of Armor Piercing presented in 3.1 and 8.7. I'm working on unifying those.)

AZKAMAT wrote: I know overskill dice are supposed to mitigate the dependence on multiple-damage-dice weapons which shielded enemies necessitate, but there's an issue with that too. That issue is that higher skill units like Skill 1D8 Elites or 1D10 Heroes will actually have a harder time dealing damage against Shielded simply because their chance for getting a crit and overskilling is lower than for 1D6. Having you better guys somehow be WORSE than the scrubs was always something that seemed to defy even logik, which was another reason I just fudged up my own rules.

Nope - crits happen on the highest roll on the die, but Overskill happens on any roll of 6 or better. Heroes Overskill on 1/2 of rolls compared to regular minifigs' 1/6; see the Skill Levels table in 10.1: Minds.
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby AZKAMAT » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:55 am

stubby wrote:There's a lot of variety in arbalests, so it depends what flavor you're going for - but the Weapon Mods at the end of Chapter 8 might be what you're looking for here. A High Powered + Safety crossbow with double damage but half firing speed might do the job, or you could house-rule in the Armor Piercing ability from 3.1 Close Combat Weapons (1d6 AP vs armored opponents if fired with both hands).


I believe I did say a "powerful" arbalest. I do not remember seeing those rules when I last read the book over a year ago now, but I suppose you are still changing it regularly.

stubby wrote:Nope - crits happen on the highest roll on the die, but Overskill happens on any roll of 6 or better. Heroes Overskill on 1/2 of rolls compared to regular minifigs' 1/6; see the Skill Levels table in 10.1: Minds.


Very Interesting. That's another rule I don't recall at all. Last I read it through, it still had the robin hood pants-pooper example story in it.

I think I should just re-read 2010 entirely sometime soon. The first time I read it sometime in late 2013 it looked like a jumbled mess of win and ossum with headache-inducing crap mixed in, so I basically made my own rules that smashed together what I saw as the best parts of 2005 and 2010 plus a few house rules.
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Re: Combined Attacks and Deflection

Postby stubby » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:40 am

AZKAMAT wrote:Very Interesting. That's another rule I don't recall at all. Last I read it through, it still had the robin hood pants-pooper example story in it.

That's still in there - it's in 4.2. I would never remove a good pants-pooping story.

AZKAMAT wrote:I believe I did say a "powerful" arbalest.

Sure, but there are lots of powerful arbalests. You could do a High Powered + Close Quarters, or a High Powered + Sawed Off, etc., depending on how you wanted to counterbalance the increased damage.
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