Page 2 of 2

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:45 pm
by Beelze
Thanks for the input.  Next question, if you'd be so kind: has anyone tried using extensively modified armies according to the custom creation rules?  Increased armor, for example, which for a size 1 minifig is actually really cheap - +1 CP per +1d6 armor.  If so, how'd it work out for you?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:57 pm
by birdman
Worked out great for me.
If you're considering doing this for yourself, check out chapter 8 of the 2001 rules.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:45 pm
by OneEye589
Because minifigs are creations themselves, it's pretty easy to make an army of super-soldiers in their place.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:57 pm
by Beelze
Yes, but it likely will not preserve game balance.  For example, a mere 4 extra CP per minifig could give them a whopping 4d10 armor and +1" movement.  2:1 odds would in no way be a fair fight against that, though CP costs would suggest so.  It's fine for Heroes because they make for one big target, but on the army-scale it quickly gets ridiculous.  Rediculous, even.

Of course this is easily rectified through a variety of houserules.  If upgraded units have to spread the points evenly, Hero style, the CP gets diluted a bit (esp in movement), and if they can only upgrade so much before a mandatory step-up in size (with retroactive purchasing of existing capability), the CP cost to selectively pump one stat becomes exponential.

I actually prefer the second type of limiter, as that would let the minifigs use larger weapons more befitting to their super science.  However, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thought of an army of mini-heroes, so I figured I'd cast about for people's opinions and experiences before building my own.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:00 pm
by birdman
Beelze wrote:a mere 4 extra CP per minifig could give them a whopping 4d10 armor and +1" movement.


Uhh... No.

Each die costs half of the number of sides it has, rounded up, making each d10 cost 5 CPs. Every +1 to a stat costs +2 CPs.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:14 pm
by Beelze
This is with the 2005 rules, where armor costs S*N CP to give a size S creature Nd10 armor.

At least, if I'm reading it right.  I might not be though - your math would explain why minifig body armor isn't a free tradeoff between stats (+armor, -move).

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:17 pm
by birdman
You should not use the 2005 rules to make creations the size of a minifig.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:48 pm
by IVhorseman
Beelze wrote:This is with the 2005 rules, where armor costs S*N CP to give a size S creature Nd10 armor.

At least, if I'm reading it right.  I might not be though - your math would explain why minifig body armor isn't a free tradeoff between stats (+armor, -move).


This is correct as long as N is equal to or less than S. Structure Level is limited by size for exactly this reason.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:09 pm
by Beelze
... and now I see where it says that, plain as day.  Twice, even.

I presume the extra 1 CP for body armor is for the ability to circumvent this limitation?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:35 pm
by stubby
A standard minifig is Size 1 with Structure Level 0.  Body Armor raises him up to his maximum Structure Level of 1.  The extra 1 CP is because it's an equipment item, which gives you a couple of extra options like taking it off and handing it to someone else.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:43 pm
by OneEye589
birdman wrote:You should not use the 2005 rules to make creations the size of a minifig.


Why not? It's perfectly balanced as long as you do it correctly.

Overlord, are the stats for a Hero fudged slightly so they are allowed 2d6 for armor? Also, because you say body armor would be raising the structure level of a regular minifig, would it do the same for a creation with a size of one and structure level of 1, therefore making it just above a structure level of 1? Would that be bending the rules?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:53 pm
by stubby
That's right, heroes are a unique case.  Normally 2d6 is out of reach for a minifig.

Equipment armor is kind of a gray area, I statted it as a 1/2" Armor Plate as described in 7.3.  Technically, minifigs should only get the armor bonus where the plate armor element is, and if anyone aims for an unprotected area (face, knees) then they should be able to ignore the armor bonus.  But this is really more trouble than it's worth, so I didn't put anything in the rulebook about it.