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Weapon amount on creations

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:22 pm
by OneEye589
So I've been working on a project for my Space Vikings for quite some time now. I've built the entire thing and I'm in the process of putting on the weapons and making stats for the beast and I've come across something that isn't really clear in the rules.

The main question is whether or not explosive payloads for payload launchers count towards the weapons in inches on a creation. Missiles count, guns count, the launchers themselves count, but if you have a payload of four 1d10 explosives on board for a launcher, do those 4" of weaponry count along with the rest?

I ask because I like some equality and balance in my wargames. Brikwars isn't about being necessarily logical, but I like having formulas for making new weapons like Natalya's, but a little more balanced.

So what do you guys think, do explosive payloads like shells for a tank cannon count as inches of weapons on the creation?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:31 am
by Warhead
Constructs that don't have physically represented shells like battle cannon shouldn't count towards the cost. Otherwise it would be insane and annoying and I would have to eat all your Lego if I ever played against you out of sheer boredom.

Missiles and such represented on the construct should go towards the cost in inches but now you brought it up I'm not too sure, I thought the same when I made Thunderchild. I had paid for the Launchers. Perhaps the same should apply to missiles as to Battlecannon. Otherwise why have missiles, just take big energy weapons instead. Hmm, needs more thought.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:18 am
by OneEye589
Well, the rules say that payloads of all types need to be represented by something, whether it just be pips on the launcher itself or actual items the minifig can carry around. If they are explosive, they still need to be payed for, but it doesn't say whether they count size-wise.

The only thing that is actually specified to actually count are guns and close-combat weapons, as the rules just say "weapons" and the example includes a gun and some CC weapons, but a couple of the things on the ass of "Weapons" in Chapter 7 don't count against size limitations, like Armor.

I always count Rockets because they have their own Range and Use, but I am unsure about the Launcher. Mostly because for certain types of launchers you could just keep stealing explosive ammunition from somewhere else and putting it in the launcher and it would never count toward the size limitation.

I guess ^that kind of answers my question then. If a bunch of explosive ammunition were being transported by another creation, it wouldn't count toward the max weapons, so logically it wouldn't count on another creation that had a launcher.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:00 pm
by Magic Soap
Perhaps a self-loading system that either creates mass to be made into a payload, or uses scrap metal. Just an idea, you could then just pay for the launcher and the system. It would only work for special creations, you couldn't have minifigs walking round with near-infinite rocket ammo.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:50 pm
by muffinman42
Or just use smooth boar artillary, i have a "cannon" mounted for backup on a desert cruiser(my own idea), load with anything, stick some powder in, and light! BOOM.... The only rolls are range and acuracy, damage is determind by the size of the object fired (the size also decreases range).

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:58 pm
by Magic Soap
muffinman42 wrote:Or just use smooth boar artillary, I have a "cannon" mounted for backup on a desert cruiser(my own idea), load with anything, stick some powder in, and light! BOOM.... The only rolls are range and acuracy, damage is determind by the size of the object fired (the size also decreases range).

But the problem still remains that you have to physically represent this stuff.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:21 pm
by muffinman42
Since the payload is a scrap from anything in my case it dosn't count, if you count all the lose missile it has WAY too much weaponry.
I don't count missiles and payloads, only launchers.
And the ploblem of storage? solve it yourself, make a bunker, or just have it laying next to the launcher.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:33 pm
by Warhead
The main question is whether or not explosive payloads for payload launchers count towards the weapons in inches on a creation. Missiles count, guns count, the launchers themselves count, but if you have a payload of four 1d10 explosives on board for a launcher, do those 4" of weaponry count along with the rest?


The re-loads cost the model in physical space so that is a limit of sorts. I agree that you can't just say you have the re-loads. You must represent them. However, I do not think the PAYLOAD/RE-LOADS count towards the cost in inches for weapons, as they cannot be fired from where they are, they may only be fired from the launchers.
Ok, so some models are different, like Nataylas Destroyer. She has multiple launchers with missiles dotted all over the ship. She has to pay for each launcher and missile BUT the up side is she gets to fire as many as she has (crew requirements taken into accounts etc). While a ship with a couple of launchers and a lot of re-loads can't fire more than the maximum firing rate of the launchers or control systems that operate them (rate of fire should/does? effect the cost of the launcher).

Hopefully that made sense but just in case I'll pause here.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:05 pm
by OneEye589
Well, I think Natalya's missiles are actually Rockets according to the rules. Rockets and explosive payloads are different, with Rockets being able to move themselves and explosive payloads needing to be fired from a launcher. Rockets are easy to show on the creation, like Natalya's missiles or missiles on the underside of a jet, torpedoes in a submarine.

What I'm working on is something similar to Natalya's laser cannons on her SHIP, but they fire explosive shells. As you must realize, this would be difficult to show the explosive rounds near the turret. I was going to just put some pips on the thing and say that they were loaded internally. That way it isn't unlimited, but it still isn't a bunch of missiles.

If explosive payloads do not count toward against the creation, then it is a much nicer alternative. Missiles count against the inches, but the payload wouldn't. For the same amount of firepower, you would have less inches lost.

My creation that I'm working on is 22" long, so having missiles would really eat up the amount of weapons it could have, especially since I'm planning on having four size 2 or 3 guns on it as well. I would like to be able to have more than just 5 MKII missiles on the thing.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:12 pm
by Warhead
Cool I get it. It's like some form of Mass Kinetic Weapon with explosive cores. Ok, true it's not a missile (Rocket unguided/Missile guided but sort of the same in my book) but it is similar. I would still say you have paid for the cost in inches when you paid for the launcher and I would then say you have to pay a CP cost for the re-loads and a practical physical cost for the storage of the re-loads. Better get to work making a magazine for the extra explosive cores. How's that sound?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:16 pm
by OneEye589
Yea, I was planning on paying for the ammunition. That's exactly what I was asking, too. Thanks for the input guys.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:23 pm
by Warhead
You're welcome. I'm not just an unhinged mother chasing flaming skull don't you know.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:42 pm
by Strana
some quick words, or rather some paragraph(s). Missiles if held in a box launcher can be payed for by only counting the length of the launcher and not the missiles (its in the rules i generally house rule this out). guns and cc weapons are as normal, however for launchers explosive ammo must be payed for separately.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:57 pm
by OneEye589
I'm talking about 2005 rules Strana. In those rules it only says that you count the amount of weapons in inches, it doesn't say anything about payloads or things like that.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:49 pm
by Strana
i am talking about the 2005 rules ver (horse)