BW 2010 feedback

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Quantumsurfer » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:02 pm

I've been trying to use them as a growth system in my current forum battle. It's a clunky solution to what I had in mind. So, more and more, I tend to agree.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Zupponn » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:12 pm

Tzan wrote:Cut the people?

I thought about this possible follow-up post as soon as I wrote the original.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby stubby » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:21 pm

The Rider and Pilot cards have now been updated to reflect the new rules.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby IVhorseman » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:38 pm

I'm loving the diagrams all over chapter nine. The funky perspective on the dreadnut jumping has all the glory of something from a high-schooler's sketches in the margins of half-taken notes. They're fun, cartoony and very efficient at describing the propulsion types they talk about.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Tzan » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:55 pm

Zupponn wrote:
Tzan wrote:Cut the people?

I thought about this possible follow-up post as soon as I wrote the original.


I guess we are soul mates now?
When should I expect the dramatic story?


Also:

The scrolly image in the MC chapter was working fine on my extremely old Firefox version, like 12.
I updated recently, v 30, now the very cool scrolly image is busted.
It gets smeared.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Whiteagle » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:05 pm

stubby wrote:
Zupponn wrote:Do you ever just see people keep ignoring rules in forum battles and figure that you need to cut them?

Yep. For example: CP. I can't WAIT to axe the fuck out of those.

But how will I be able to justify bring Grillions of Battle Droids for the price of a single Squad?
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Nimja » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:14 pm

I feel that SN dice are overpowered in that you can buy an unlimited number of them. I once spent about 100 CP on SN dice on a single creaton, and accidentally managed to hit the front of my opponents army from across the room. He capitulated turn 2.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:38 pm

Minifigs are overpowered too, you can also buy an unlimited number of them.

You rolled that many dice and none of them turned against you?

What was your creation's cliche?

Whiteagle wrote:But how will I be able to justify bring Grillions of Battle Droids for the price of a single Squad?

Another thing to cut: justifying things.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:49 pm

Whiteagle wrote:
stubby wrote:
Zupponn wrote:Do you ever just see people keep ignoring rules in forum battles and figure that you need to cut them?

Yep. For example: CP. I can't WAIT to axe the fuck out of those.

But how will I be able to justify bring Grillions of Battle Droids for the price of a single Squad?


Battle Droids are non-living constructs.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Whiteagle » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:21 pm

IVhorseman wrote:Battle Droids are non-living constructs.

If I made them Constructs, they'd be even MORE costly AND functionally double their health...
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Quantumsurfer » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:31 pm

I've done a couple of battles now using loads of SN Dice. I find that the cliche limits them significantly. Over time, moreso than I originally thought they would. This is especially true if you build a cliche that isn't super broad (superhero vs. ice powers, for example). To top that off, I find that specific restrictions like that one still allow you to creatively explore the idea while forcing you to think outside the box. Same as heroic feats (though this is true more with them than with SN Dice). Typically, I find myself using a similar tactic with SN Dice over the turns of the game, whereas I want my Heroic Feats to be as unique as possible from turn to turn. Just a difference in perspective when approaching the systems.

I find myself ignoring the elemental descriptors of the dice, because I've used them for a diverse array of concepts and the elemental descriptors can be a little too limiting in that regard. However, if you include them alongside the cliche restriction, it brings their power level down quite a bit. d4s are usually the most powerful to buy in bulk but if the cliche isn't fire (or acid, poison, that kind of thing) related, you find yourself barred from purchasing those dice and have to spend more and more on SN Dice.

This leads to the classic "eggs in one basket" situation. All it takes is one bad roll and all that CP vanishes in a puff of smoke. Losing the unit isn't so bad but spending a chunk of your fighting force on stuff you don't get to use in cool ways kind of is. Even more horrifying is the distinct possibility that you'll be boring. Any game's rules can be twisted to make you, as the player, boring. What makes you a good player is choosing not to do that. Turn after turn of Knights of the Round ain't fun for anyone.

This last thought leads me toward spreading the SN Dice around a bit. I can do more cool things on my turn that way and the CP is better spent. My problem now, if it is even a problem, is that SN Dice have become quintessential to every game I play. They can cover any mechanics not already covered elsewhere in the game. Even non supernatural stuff often sees their use. Like, say, a superspy with intense amounts of training and experience.

stubby wrote:You rolled that many dice and none of them turned against you?


Actually, yes, in my case. But it wasn't a significant deterrent. Successes, Crits, and normal failures (if possible) combined account for a far greater probability in the rolling than do Fumbles. At lower numbers of dice, Fumbles are much more dangerous. Even one turning against you can cause you to fail. But at much higher numbers of dice, a few Fumbles aren't enough to counteract the overwhelming force presented by all the other successes, even when they crit.

My solution for this, so far, has been to just not buy massive quantities of SN Dice unless the scenario calls for it and I have lots of other things in place to help counteract them.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Voin » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:50 am

Quantumsurfer wrote:My problem now, if it is even a problem, is that SN Dice have become quintessential to every game I play. They can cover any mechanics not already covered elsewhere in the game. Even non supernatural stuff often sees their use. Like, say, a superspy with intense amounts of training and experience.


Nothing wrong with that - I use SN dice for statting out a bunch of high-tech sci-fi stuff. Traktor beams? Move dice on target. Reroute starship power to guns? Range & Damage dice. Full impulse speed and burn sky until we see lines? Move dice on starship, in addition to regular move & thrust. Re-calibrating sensors? Scout tracking ability + Range dice (d10 = radius scan). Jam enemy missiles? Curse dice. Guided missiles? Blessing dice. Boost "shields"? Armor dice.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Voin » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:54 am

stubby wrote:A couple new updates to the 2010 rulebook:

Chapter 9 got worked over. A half dozen new little illustrations to explain propulsion, and almost all of the Thrust Vectors got chopped out.

All minifigs can now steer a vehicle and fire its weapons at the same time. A Pilot's advantage is now that he's the only one who gets to do Stunt Driving. A Rider's advantage is now that he can control a Horse/vehicle and also attack with his own weapons at the same time (appropriate for jousters, mounted archers, and dragoons).

The minifig cards for the Pilot and Rider have not been updated to reflect the new rules text yet.


The new diagram illustrations are great!

stubby wrote:Yep. For example: CP. I can't WAIT to axe the fuck out of those.


Image

I would ask that those at least be left as an option - it makes balancing armies and resource-oriented campaigns so much easier.



Also, I found an inconsistency in a 2010 rules example:

2010 Rules, 10.3, Armor Dice wrote:Armor Dice are kept with the affected unit for as long as the Effect persists, and are rolled again every time the Armor stat is called for. Most types of dice are added to or subtracted from the Armor stat directly: adding an Armor d6 to a Minifig's Armor of 4 gives it an Armor of 4+1d6, and subtracting an Armor d8 from a Hero's Armor of 1d10 gives it 1d10-1d8, for as long as the Effect lasts.


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Heroes have a Skill of 1d10, are able to Move seven inches per turn, and have an Armor rating of 2d6.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby IVhorseman » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:58 pm

Voin wrote:
stubby wrote:Yep. For example: CP. I can't WAIT to axe the fuck out of those.


Image

I would ask that those at least be left as an option - it makes balancing armies and resource-oriented campaigns so much easier.


They will be right up until the rulebook is finished, or so goes the plan. Personally, I think the Unit-inches system will work just fine once the kinks are worked out on how to fit customization-points in for the nitty gritty details without calling them CP.
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Re: BW 2010 feedback

Postby Zupponn » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:02 pm

Recently, I noticed that the older statcards
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put the 1 before the d6 in the skill area, but the newer statcards
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do not. I know that there's no difference, but it might be a good idea to stick to one way or the other for consistency.
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