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Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:02 am
by Apollyon
It felt strangely familiar.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:34 pm
by Tzan
Well, your question made me reread it, so that's a minus.

But I would say 1d6 nearby figs (within 6") get a +1 skill (not dice size).
The Speecher spends all his actions doing that, but it would need to be a speech based character.

So it could be worth it if 6 guys get a +1, but not worth it at all if only one fig gets +1.
The Speecher could have taken an action and got an extra kill for the team, but didnt.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:07 pm
by stubby
Tzan wrote:The Speecher could have taken an action and got an extra kill for the team, but didnt.

From a game mechanical standpoint, this is a fairly balanced tactical trade for the player: weighing the benefit of distributed bonuses vs. the cost of loss of action. It'd be fine as an ad hoc house rule, or a rule for a regular tactical game.

From a metagame mechanical standpoint, this is all downsides, no upsides: a choice between the added overhead of extra twiddling of numbers vs. the inhibition of action for the unit. Both options act as dampers on game momentum, without any added hilarity or mayhem to show for it.

Dilanski's ideas are much more on the right track for driving player engagement. I just think Heroes and Feats are the wrong vehicle for carrying a speechifying mechanic.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:20 pm
by Tzan
Oh I agree.

But you asked me a very specific question so I tried to answer it seriously even though I know you were joking  :D

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:51 pm
by AZKAMAT
Was reading you guys' discussion on speeches, and thought I'd chip in my two cents by mentioning a rule my usual opponent and I came with: The Inspiring ability!

Basically, everybody around a figure with inspiring got a general +1 modifier to skill and movement speed (but not armor, because courage doesn't make armor harder [it may be able to do that for your dick, however]). When I say "Everybody around," I mean within a very small radius around the figure, at most six inches.

We also made limits on them; We made the Inspring ability worth 5CP and put a limit of 1 per army for every army of <100. For armies of >100, Inspiring could only be present on 1% of all minifigs.

We even designated certain minifigs to just be inspiring; great heads of state, living treasures, that sort of person. Basically, none of them were great heroes or even officers in their own right, they just commanded enough prestige to, well, inspire the other men.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:37 pm
by stubby
BW2010 has something a little like that coming up in the form of the Officer - any Squad with one or more Officers in it gets the Skill of its minifigs boosted from 1d6 to 1d8. (Or from 1d4 to 1d6, if they're leading civilians for some reason.)

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:21 pm
by Warhead
I have vaguely made a slight effort to follow this thread.

When I make an inspiring speech, the continuing health of peoples families are at stake. So a +1 where ever the fuck I suggest it should be in my orders (so long as I rolled successfully) is pretty much what I expect. Unless in a Brikwars members Hosted Battle the Hosting player thinks it doesn't fit the game and fudges the roll to suit what he wants to do, which is mostly to be awesomerer than my orders would allow. Which is fair enough.

If it is a game in person I would expect the player wanting to have a Hero make a speech to loudly and on occasion lewdly (in the interests of hilarity) make an improvised speech on the spot and declare what the hoped for result should be while allowing their opponent/s a short amount of time to chime in with what the punishment for failure should be. Or if they're stuck for ideas I'd expect the speechifying player to suggest a suitable idea or two. Anything is possible but with higher ambitions come higher stakes and more severe punishments. Then simply throw the fucking dice and hope to hell it's in your favor. Obviously I'm expecting a degree of maturity and self governance here. This may be beyond some people. That's what the 2010 printed rules are for. They should be heavy enough by now to smack even the most hardy player silly.

There should be a limit of one speech per side per battle, otherwise you have vastly less chance of success with further attempts. After all, what self respecting Minifig would want to listen to a couple of farting windbags in a good going fight. You could make Hero Characters with the Speechifying ability like Rant or Demagogue etc gain an advantage where they have a better chance of succeeding in their attempts, and subsequent further attempts. Further attempts should still be very difficult though. IMO.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:20 pm
by AZKAMAT
stubby wrote:BW2010 has something a little like that coming up in the form of the Officer - any Squad with one or more Officers in it gets the Skill of its minifigs boosted from 1d6 to 1d8. (Or from 1d4 to 1d6, if they're leading civilians for some reason.)


Wasn't aware of that. The last version of 2010 I was able to find didn't even have the section officers are supposed to be covered in.

That makes sense. One other thing I forgot to mention earlier was that when an inspiring figure was killed, everyone in that player's whole army, except droids (Unless they were sufficiently intelligent), now suffered a -1 modifier to speed and skill for 1 of that player's turns, and the following opponents turn.

So basically, if I killed my opponents inspiring figure at the start of turn 2, he'd get the -1 for the rest of my turn, his next turn, and my turn 3 as well.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:30 pm
by stubby
Warhead wrote:There should be a limit of one speech per side per battle, otherwise you have vastly less chance of success with further attempts. After all, what self respecting Minifig would want to listen to a couple of farting windbags in a good going fight.

Ah, now this I like. I like the idea of the Epic Speech as a bonus you can only burn once and it changes your disposition for the rest of the battle, so you're stuck with whatever you pick. Especially if there's a tradeoff, like a "Whites Of Their Eyes" speech gives +1 Skill, -1" Range or "Unleash Hell" gives -1 Armor, +1 Damage or something like that. Because a speech inspiring enough to make a difference should define the spirit of the whole battle, not just twiddle a meaningless digit for a single turn.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:04 am
by Warhead
Yup, leave the meaningless buffs to things like Maniac Beer etc to give additional limited benefits to skill rolls. Even I like a sense of order about these things and a tiered system in my rules, if not my ideology.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:39 pm
by stubby
How about this: make a speech, choose 1 from column A and one from column B. (You must actually make the speech. It can be as stupid as you want, but you must deliver it in a convincing manner.)

Ker-Speech! Menu

COLUMN A. Choose one bonus.
Haste: +1d6 Move"
Ferocity: +1d6 Damage
Skill: +1d6 Attack Bonus
Solidarity: +1d6 Skill Bonus for Specialist abilities

COLUMN B. Choose one penalty.
Fearlessness: -1d6 Armor
Precision: -1d6 Range
Mayhem: -1d6 Attack Penalty

Obviously I need to think of more penalty options. I would want to limit turtley options to avoid situations like +1d6 Armor / -1d6 Damage that would slow down the game.

So here's the trick. Once you make the speech, roll the d6 for the bonus and the d6 for the penalty, and leave the results on the table permanently. Every turn, decrease the number on each d6 by 1. Once they reach 1, they stay there. The effect of the speech is most powerful on the turn you make it, and has lasting but diminishing effects afterwards.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:14 pm
by Warhead
I did wonder at the time if Awkward teens could manage to make a speech but thought it a good way to encourage social skills. However, the elephant in the room has now become quantify convincing manner when the recipient is a MiniFig.  Perhaps the player making the speech must speak for the maximum of one minuet (keep it short, game on maaan!), or until all opponents agree that they've heard enough and concede to the attempt.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:30 pm
by stubby
Maybe convincing is the wrong word. I don't want to discourage people from making the stupidest speeches possible. Mainly it just has to be convincing to minifigs, so all you really have to do is promise violence and destruction in an important-sounding voice.

I guess the best way to say it is, don't waste a bunch of time or thought or anything, but the Great Leader minifig has to make the speech in character.

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:03 am
by jmatthew
First of all, I like where this speeches thing is going.

Secondly, I found a typo in the text box in 1.3:
By counterfeiting and betraying the good will built up by LEGO over the course of generations, the parasitic clone brands sabotage the very market they leech off of. To give them a single dollar of support is an act of evil beyon any justification, and anyone who knowingly buys a clone set is doomed to burn in Hell in a richly-deserved fiery torment lasting for all eternity.


I haven't been on these forums in ages, so I don't know if it's been pointed out yet, but I thought it only fair to return the favor you so humbly gave me on my Helvetica poster a while back. :)

Re: BW 2010 feedback

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:54 pm
by Nimja
Chapter 11 is a broken link.Can we have a download somewhere?