New CP idea

[stubby]

Because of this, I think using CP to tweak things is a dangerous path. Having both UI and CP means having two economies, and I'm pretty sure that the spirit of the rules pretty clearly states "fuck that shit."

I think players are smart enough to know that when one team has explosive rounds in all their pistols, the other team should have some kind of vague advantage that at least feels like it's about the same power level. Instead of CP, something a lot looser like "well these 4 units have 2 upgrades each, so you get 8 upgrades for your team" covers it just fine.

That's actually pretty close to the plan. The new CP aren't going to be like the current CP; they're Customization rather than Construction Points, and a lot less granular. I might just end up calling them Customizations or Mods or something and lose the whole "points" thing completely. Or even Upgrades, although it's a bad idea to start both budgets with the same letter.

So "budgeting" will be something like "I have thirty inches' worth of units with five upgrades" rather than "I have a 216.5 CP army."

[stubby]

Similar to what I've posted earlier, but right now it looks like this:

Weapons, Equipment, and Devices: Free, but you have to buy the minifigs (or equivalent units with Minds) to operate them.

Minifigs: All minifigs are 1 ϋ. Specialists' advantages are balanced by either equipment requirements (reducing their free hands) or reduced mobility.

Steeds: 1 ϋ per inch. Half-Minded, but comes with a free Rider minifig.
Creatures: 1 ϋ per inch.
Armor: SL:0.5 regardless of Size, but can wear Armor or Heavy Armor like you'd expect.
Move: 5" for Size 1 or smaller, 10" for Size 2 or larger.
A Tough Creature (minimum Size:1) has SL:1, -3" Move.

Vehicles: 1 ϋ per inch. Comes with a free Pilot minifig.
Armor: SL is one half of Size, up to SL:1 for Flying Vehicles or SL:3 for non-Flying Vehicles.
Move: 5" for Size 1 or smaller, 10" for Size 2 or larger.
A Light Vehicle (minimum Size:2) has -1 SL, +5" Move; a Heavy Vehicle (minimum Size:2) has -3" Move, +1 SL.

Scenery Buildings: Free.
Armor: SL:1
Power: 0

Combat Buildings:
Light Structure: SL:1, 1 ϋ per 4"
Heavy Structure: SL:2, 1 ϋ per 3"
Fortified Structure: SL:3, 1 ϋ per 2"

The only CP upgrades I've got so far are these:
Heroic Ego (+1CP)
SuperNatural Dice (+1CP per die; some changes to d10 and d12 for balancing against other dice)

With that in mind, I might just change the upgrades to "Extra Dice." Because nothing modifies your Unit Inches like E.D.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

What about downgrading?
What if I want a size 2 vehicle that goes slower then 10"? Do I get a handful of Customization Points change to spend on other stuff or what?

What if I want a Howitzer gun that I can hook behind my jeep to move around the battlefield.
It's not a vehicle because it doesn't move unless pulled/pushed. It's not a building. It's not part of the Jeep because it's detachable and it doesn't logically draw it's power from it.
Is it just free?

Just throwing stuff around here to check the flexibility of the system.

[IVhorseman]

Downgrading sounds like too much paperwork.

As for the howitzer, I imagine so - but you'd still need minifigs to operate it and those aren't free.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

Downgrading sounds like too much paperwork.

I thought so too, but it should absolutely be a possibility right?

[loafofcheese]

Just treat it as you would a stationary or mounted weapon, but it has it's own power supply and cannot move without external help.

[Quantumsurfer]

I can really get behind the idea of Inches Plus Mods, but only if there are a healthy number of mods to choose from. Functionally, I should think they'll be the equivalent of current CP options, just all fleshed out and prepackaged for players. That frontloads a lot of the work onto you, Mike, as the designer but it would create a much smoother play experience. Most of the time, when I use CP to customize now, I spend it on SN dice and on expanding Minifig capabilities (faster movement, better armor, greater skill, multiple actions). You could do some of those as packages/mods/customizations/whatever. So, for example, the tough guy mod might increase a minifig's armor by a few points or a die. A sprinter mod might boost a minifig's movement by a few inches. If you wanted to, you could go the RPG Powers route...like feats in D&D, where the powers specifically break the rules. Like an Agile mod that allows minifigs to change directions during a charge or a Two Inch Punch mod that allows minifigs to build up a MOM with only 2 inches of movement instead of 4 or a Martial Artist mod that would allow a minifig to use his bare hands as hand weapons for all close combat purposes. You could easily sink into a mire with this, though, so I'd pick the ones best themed and keep the total number of available mods to a relatively small number.

You could also categorize mods, which might help with internal balancing. Minifig Mods, Squad Mods (lulz), Equipment Mods, Vehicle Mods, Building Mods. Unless you've already said this.

[mercury19]

I just had some ideas. How about creating your own special abilities? This goes well for both regular construction and for customization points.

Each aspect would cost a certain amount of points, like:
Damage: +1 for d4, +2 for d6, etc, then +1 for each additional die of any kind
Die size increase: +1 per size (per die?)
Supernatural dice: as what Stubby said
Range: +1 per inch past 2
Area of effect: as above, with 2cp base cost
Passive abilities: +2 cp



For ex:

An area of effect explosion power at 3" would cost 11 cp
2 for AOE, 1 for the extra inch, and 8 for 2d10 (4 cp each)

Or karate skills might be 3 cp. 2 for the hand to hand d6 damage, and a d8 supernatural for acrobatics.




Also, for notation, what about writing it as unit inches.customization points? So a karate master would be 1.3 u", of karate were as above. They would be counted separately, but for ease of labeling, they could be combined as one number.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

I feel as if all the examples you just gave could easily be solved simply with supernatural dice.

[mercury19]

I feel as if all the examples you just gave could easily be solved simply with supernatural dice.

Now that I have read supernatural dice, I would agree with you. I played a game yesterday, and I was thinking of some of my friends units. He had his four horseman, and each one had a passive ability. For example, war gave all friendly units within a pistol shot(6") a +1 to all damage rolls. How would one determine the CP of this? A passive, non-dice ability?

[samuelzz10]

(Guy who hasn't read 50% of thread + hasn't played Brikwars in over 6 months dropping 2 cents)

I never used CP, but now that I'm going to start planning some 2v2 games and such, I think there are a lot of up-sides to it when you really look at it. With inches, you can have one player who's really purist buy 40 grunts and another player buy 40 broken custom units if they are fudging it too much, and so forth. I think CP is pretty good because it shows pretty precisely how equal 2 teams are, one team could have 40 grunts and another could have 25 specialized units, and it would be really even because the CP cost is the same, rather than just using inches, which are a little too easy to abuse.

[stubby]

one team could have 40 grunts and another could have 25 specialized units, and it would be really even because the CP cost is the same, rather than just using inches, which are a little too easy to abuse.

Nah. You can't buy customized units with inches, unless the customizations are all SN dice, in which case your 25 specialized units still cost 40 inches and then the teams are matched up regardless.

But otherwise, if you want your super-customized army, then you'd buy standard units with inches, and then customize them with Customization Points. Which, hopefully, would be much more strictly limited than inches, in order to keep the game from getting more complicated than it needed to be. Say, one CP for every five inches or something along those lines.

[Vason]

But otherwise, if you want your super-customized army, then you'd buy standard units with inches, and then customize them with Customization Points. Which, hopefully, would be much more strictly limited than inches, in order to keep the game from getting more complicated than it needed to be. Say, one CP for every five inches or something along those lines.

While I agree that the new system seems like it would be more simple, I am one of those who does enjoy having an ultra complex army go up against a simple one. For me, it's fun to watch a squad of 10 guys with specialties, armor, and SU dice galore, match up against 50 regular dudes, and the current system makes it wind up balanced so either side could come out victorious. If/when the new stuff goes live, could the CP system also be saved somewhere on the site for those of us who wind up preferring it?

[stubby]

Yes. I'm going to finish out BW2010 with a complete CP system before writing the U" version.

[cleanupcrew]

Yes. I'm going to finish out BW2010 with a complete CP system before writing the U" version.

Is there a comprehensive list of shit Stubby keeps promising to finish somewhere?

I'm still holding out hope for the Brikwars trading card game.