Page 1 of 2

Accesory rules for minifig scale ship combat.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:12 pm
by Strana
BrikWars supplement: minifig scale rules and guidlines

since large ships are a little different from normal mocs mainly in the amount of damage the can pump out and the limited health in the basic 2005 rules, large ships start becoming less powerful if awesome sights on a battlefield. this is my effort to recondish the rules for space or also they can be used as a base to large naval vessels.

Any MOC which purportes to travel in space and is over 12" long may use these alternative rules for building.

Hit Points, in the 2005 rules hit points = Structure level, here that doesn't change but some rearangement is made so that a vessel is more likely do die faster
HP follows the structure level purchased for the ship, roughly every 12" has 5  HP. so if you have a 24 in ship with 2 levels and those levels extend from nose to tail you have effectively 20 hp total, 10 per deck. deliniated along size 12"  and level(story) of ship. Note on left over inches say your vessel is 18" those 4" still have a full amound of HP even though they are not otherwise the full 12" of a normal ship.

New guidlines for weapon creation

Heavy space vessels practically deserve more powerful weapons than any ground based attack system, as such they are only limited by the size of the ship. also as long as you can fit missiles or space topedoe on or around the hull they do not take up weapon inch length.
also remember a space vessel actually has its length x2 in weapon inch lengths with which to include weapons.

New weapons

explosive shell

10cp/d10.........-..........n/a......n/a.......see shields

A note on armor

you can have up to your SL of additional armor per HP section


Shields provide an all encompasing protective field, protecting from flying debris, missiles laser weapons, flying limbs and yesterdays tuna sandwich. shields are bought in increments of d 10's per 10 cp. to represent the shield generator somewhere on the moc bust be some sort of array that is anounced to be the shield generator. the length of the shield generator is the amount of d10 your allowed to purchase, you may have multiple generators.
the shield generator envelops the ship is a roughly sphericle manner 4 inches from the ship. this means any minifig planting a bomb on the hull does not get blocked by the shields. slow moving obsjects can move through shields.

shields are used by the player when an defensive strength role is required ie when attacked. you may use all the shield die in one attack or spread them out over several different attacks, though once they are used up they don't recharge until your next turn. this can create rolling shields were you have differing amount of protection from turn to turn

a minifig within 3" of the ship decided to disable an AA battery that has been giving his buds trouble, and blew up his fighter. he is within 3 inshe of the hull so the shields don't absorb any of the attack.

example 2:
a massive missile bombardment hits the ship, seeing that the opponent is hitting with 6 class V missiles the defender decied that his hull SL of 4 and armor rating of two can pick off some of the missiles, so he has his shields spend 10 die to lessen the blow. the defender rolls 7,7,4,5,3,1,8,9,6,5,7,6,4,6,5,7= 90. while the attacker rolls, 1,4,6,2,5,4,5,3,8,6,7,5,6,3,4,2,6,5,7,6,4,5,6,4,2,8,7,9,9,5=151
this is survivable as his hull section takes one SL of damage compared to
5 points of SL that would otherwise be taken.

Up grades and devices

5cp defensive fire:
a weapon that has this upgrade can shoot down missiles, and torpedoes. the use rating to shoot down a missile is inverse to size 5=use 2 4=3 3=4 2=1 1=0 thats right class I missiles are launched to closely to the ship for the targeting computers to track. to shoot down torpedoes its the guns use rating.
weapons on defensive fire could not have attacked in the previous turn as they spent thier time ready to stop incoming ordinance and gun size III and below may have defensive fire.

secondary bridge
a secondary bridges control infanstructure may be purchased for 20 cp other wise in the event of a bridge hit shield and weapon controls are released to local control nodes.

Ship torpedoes

ship torpedoes are the heaviest weapons known to lego warfare specially build to be ship killers these weapon are every admirals best weapon and worse bane.

a ship torpedoe is priced as a standard MOC. however its small intelligence is only good in steering it twards its announced target and exploding itself once it gets there. dmg is 1d12/inch at a cost of 4 cp per d12, can be shot down by defensive fire weapons and starfighters.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:00 pm
by Strana
any other ideas feed back is welcome. i just noticed a breakdown in survivability relative to carried weapons.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:02 pm
by birdman
then stop being a pussy and do something about it.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:53 am
by Strana
thats the whole reason for the rules, i came out with. DUR:rol:. either thier bang on or meh or holy crap.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:20 am
by Gorchek
I see one small problem with it. In 2005, a creation's hp is linked to it's size, not it's structure level. So a 16" galleon could have a SL of 1, and 16 hp.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:18 am
by Strana
apparently i reinterpreted SL vs size in dmg. although I've found that generally having the SL be the HP generally helps move the game along faster, although it does mean that the size of an object doesn't matter as much for hp. also i usually disregard the whole negatives and gradual shutdown of parts unless it is a specific targeted attack. ill have to run some chance calculations

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:45 am
by tahthing
i see it as
structure level: how hard it is to damage
size rateing: how big it is, how easy it is to hit, how much of it there is to damage.
if you want a quick and dirty battle have the vehcles have 1hp each, causes so much chaos.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:14 pm
by Tiny Tank Rannon
tahthing wrote:I see it as
structure level: how hard it is to damage
size rateing: how big it is, how easy it is to hit, how much of it there is to damage.
if you want a quick and dirty battle have the vehcles have 1hp each, causes so much chaos.

I remember when I first found the rules, I forgot that vehicles size was basically their hp, so whenever I battled, my mechs died within a few turns.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:42 pm
by Strana
well carfeully going through the chance calcs, i think having the SL be health and not having the reduction of statds tends to encourage a faster game and makes shure everything ill be dead generally in about 3-4 turns if it is facing a properly fielded and directed force, obviously chance can throw this out the window but i think for generally larger battles having the SL of a creation be also its health helps move the battle along and gives a little more power into the hands of the minifig. especially raises the use of squads

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:51 pm
by Strana
these were the rules used in the fleet engagement on the 30TH

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:08 pm
by OneEye589
I don't like this idea. Just like the midispace wars and microspace wars, I think it would be just as easy (if not easier) to just use regular BrikWars rules. If you have a 36" long ship just give it 36HP; that's technically how 2005 rules work anyway. Read chapter 7.5 under "Size Damage."

You're making up shields and these calculations for hit points when you don't need to. A regular space ship INCLUDING shields has 4d10 armor. If you want to make it 4d10 armor unshielded and then 5d10 shielded, fine. If you leave the Armor scores low then you won't have to worry about having tons of HP because you'll be dealing so much damage per turn anyway. Just make damage per turn all add up instead of for each separate attack deal separate damage if you're worried.

I feel like you're just making it too hard on yourself.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:11 am
by Strana
I've had this out mutiple times this is my change for hp.

1st lesser creations ie shuttles fighter etc have HP based on thier SL, Large ships HP is based on how lang it his devided by 12 in other words if you have a size 13" vessel it has 10 hp, if its 23" long it has 10 hp. this is a Simple system that helps preserve ships, for longer than a turn if i did damage in the normal fasion vessels would die in less than a turn, by having slightly harder to damage ships, it actually incourages you to use boarding parties. in other words by game mechanics im influencing the player to use boarding parties.

2nd this system was used to great success you must realize with standard brikwars rules my heaviest weapon is a size XXi cannon at the time of the battle.
I expect there to be even larger weapons later

so lets say it hits and does 84damage the defending player rolls for one of his heavy ships, it has armor, and a class III shield for a total roll of 48 the cannon then does one pip of damage, this also collapses the shields.

next round of firing does 97 damage the defensive roll is then 37 this is then 2 pips damage assume a 10hp ship, or any ship between 13" and 24"  in two turns with just  for arguments sake, say a size 20 vessel
one ship firing does 3 points of damage

under normal rules this vessel is destroyed in one shot 84 - 48 equals 44 if the ship is size 20 this is enough damage to destroy the vessel twice over.

I made these rules so that large ships would have a period were it wouldn't just be instant death. if so all you would see would be Lancer type ships out front with Anti fighter ships behind, the lancers might as well be built of mini fig flesh for all that their defensive value is worth as it is then a he who gets in range first kills first, and if you remember with brikwars reaction order, a commander can say this vessel will fire if a vessel comes within range, if this is the case then neither army will willingly commit them selves to being first to totally being obliterated.

im not pulling this out of my ass i carefully considered this because even with my modified damage system its still possible to take ships out in one turn. but to do this the player must make the choice and the movement necessary to align the shots and choose which target to kill. in other words what is the most pressing target. and is it worth taking fire for. also it brings in a secondary roll of fighters as an anti weapon platform that is have the fighters blow up the enemy main guns, as a tactic to disabling them.

also the numbers generated in this post above were taken from a random number generator. so im not bullshitting about that either. im not making this anymore complex than it has to be to get some feeling of achievement even for a losing force, because you have longer to play with more options. the more chance even an outmatched enemy then has to steal away victory.

I was throwing in the end almost 200!!!!! dice at rocs mother ship, it almost died in 2 turns it warped out at the last second with 1 HP remaining. quite literally it was about 10 points off from total obliteration. [/b]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:48 am
by Rayhawk
Man, after watching everyone else try to explain it and not getting the message across, I feel dumb for even trying, but:

If you did damage in the normal fashion, your ships would last a lot longer, not less long.

All ships already have HP equal to their length, and it costs the Armor Rating to damage each HP.  So, for instance, if you have a ship with 3d10 armor and it's 20 inches long, you'd have to beat 60d10 damage to fully destroy it.  84 points of damage would only knock out about 4 or 5 hit points, leaving plenty.

I do like the idea of shields that lose their armor boost after the first hit point of damage though, there are some interesting game mechanic possibilities there.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:21 am
by Strana
Woot so speaks the overlord,

just so were all clear on how damage was dealt

attack number
-----------------equals x
defense number

x being the number of damage done to hp

x-length equals remaining HP

*this is just so everones on the same page.

either people are interpreting it differently or not phrasing how they think damage works right

i thought after reading the rules for the first time it was HP equals length
as such my goal was to reduce HP

because even with less hp it took 8 hours to play a game.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:41 pm
by OneEye589
We understand how it works, but in no way is your system a simpler system.

For the sake of argument, let's say you have a 50" long ship with a structure level of 4 (which is the basic structure level for a space ship). Let's also say that you decide to have a 10" shield generator and spend the max on shields, so you have 10d10s in shields and 4d10 as armor otherwise.

Under your rules the ship would have 16 or 17 HP. Under the regular rules the ship would have 50 HP.

Under your rules, suggesting that a ship gets attacked by 10 MKV missiles (so the equivalent of 50d10 damage) a turn, you would go through the motions to spend all of your shield dice the first turn anyway. Say you spend 1 shield d10 for every missile, changing your armor to the equal amount of dice for each attack (5d10 damage vs. 5d10 armor). You have to keep track of all of the shield dice you've used, how much armor you have left, etc. It's just a lot of bookkeeping.

Under the regular rules you just roll and subtract the armor from the damage. Put some pips on the ship and you're done. It's no bookeeping at all compared to your system.

By all means though, use your system. I just wouldn't call it simpler. I just think using the regular system would actually kill off a lot of the time it spent for your battle in the first place and would connect it better to BrikWars itself instead of making its own ruleset.