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Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:53 pm
by IVhorseman
stubby wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:Really? I prefer the open-endedness of the other supernatural rules, but i guess it's true that they're currently a bit abusable (only two dice and 11cp for a 1d12dmg attack with 1d6" range).

Is that OP do you think?  It sounds pretty unreliable to me for something costing 11cp, especially considering the 25% chance one or both dice will fumble and be used against you.


But who uses cp? Supernatural powered beings with only one die are fun but don't get any cool free attacks (although I guess you could technically add damage to a shove? sounds fishy to me). supernatural beings with two or more dice can start combining them into explosions, ranged attacks, and all sorts of weird area attacks - the potential effectiveness of a supernatural being increases exponentially with each die. The chance of failure DOES start to stack up with each failed die, but if you stick with use rolls it's still only at a use of 2 - most other ranged attacks have a 1/3 chance of failure, with significantly less damage. The recent change to completely getting rid of the use rolls doesn't actually change the gameplay too much, but it DOES get rid of a die roll that would almost always succeed - especially with heroic casters.

I don't know if it's OP, but that same caster would also have the versatility to create an explosion of (1d6)/2" centered on themselves dealing 1d12 damage. It may be a suicide tactic but it's wildly powerful. Personally I think that's fun - but the kind of person who likes static, pre-made spells that do the same thing every time might find that totally bullshit.

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:15 pm
by stubby
Well you can't really say "who uses CP" and then talk about things being unbalanced - if you're not setting limits then you can make anything unbalanced.  Bam, here's my Asterios army of ten thousand minifigs, because who uses CP?

SN dice have been undergoing a lot of modifications over the past month or two, especially in effect-multipliers like area effect and arc.  Area effect can only be bought with d10s: any time you use a d10, it adds 2" area whether you want it to or not.  Arc is similar: any time you use a d8 you can add 1 Arc, but unlike the area effect the extra Arc is optional.

So you can have a SN unit with only a single d10 who can spam explosions centered on himself, which is pretty funny I guess, although I'm not sure what kind of SuperNatural Cliche you'd have to choose to justify that particular effect.

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:23 pm
by Tzan
Many computer games have effects that are centered on you that only effect enemy characters.

Also an extra complication to area effects, that helps to limit them, you can specify how many targets are effected in the area.

So a 69" dia. can effect up to 3 enemies. ( instead of All Of Them )

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:01 pm
by IX_Legion
stubby wrote:So you can have a SN unit with only a single d10 who can spam explosions centered on himself, which is pretty funny I guess, although I'm not sure what kind of SuperNatural Cliche you'd have to choose to justify that particular effect.


Japanese Samurai Kamikaze Warlock?

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:02 am
by Silverdream
IX_Legion wrote:
stubby wrote:So you can have a SN unit with only a single d10 who can spam explosions centered on himself, which is pretty funny I guess, although I'm not sure what kind of SuperNatural Cliche you'd have to choose to justify that particular effect.


Super Japanese Samurai Kamikaze Warlock Warrior 9000?


FTFY.

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:41 pm
by IVhorseman
stubby wrote:Well you can't really say "who uses CP" and then talk about things being unbalanced - if you're not setting limits then you can make anything unbalanced.


Most of the guns and weapons and stuff are pretty balanced in use/range/dmg, and don't need the extra benefit of CP to make them balanced. For some jobs a pistol is better than a rifle, and a little knife better than a bazooka (but not many). Sure an assault rifle dishes out way more damage than a pistol, but when it runs out of ammo it's often more efficient to chuck it and pick up a pistol instead of spending the time to reload. Magic on the other hand, is almost always better, and though it has a chance to fail, it's still going to do a *lot* more damage.

Even without CP, most of the game seems to balance itself out. I'm glad only d10s can make explosions though - it seemed kinda lame to be able to just create-your-own-blast with other dice. Is there any caveat for adjusting skill? For every die in-use a magician must take a -1 penalty in skill, but by even allocating a single d6 to skill they can compensate for that penalty - as well as increase their critical chance.

I guess what I'm really aiming for is getting rid of stuff that's BS, not OP. Being on the receiving end of some magical marksman dishing out a whole shitload of extra damage on his rifle rounds with enough skill to nail just about any shot he pleases sounds like it'd be pretty much the opposite of fun.


BRB, gonna do some magical kamikaze

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:03 am
by stubby
IVhorseman wrote:Even without CP, most of the game seems to balance itself out. I'm glad only d10s can make explosions though - it seemed kinda lame to be able to just create-your-own-blast with other dice. Is there any caveat for adjusting skill? For every die in-use a magician must take a -1 penalty in skill, but by even allocating a single d6 to skill they can compensate for that penalty - as well as increase their critical chance.

I guess what I'm really aiming for is getting rid of stuff that's BS, not OP. Being on the receiving end of some magical marksman dishing out a whole shitload of extra damage on his rifle rounds with enough skill to nail just about any shot he pleases sounds like it'd be pretty much the opposite of fun.

This sounds familiar.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClass ... Archer.htm

Skill aspect dice got changed up too.  You can add or subtract a skill die as a one-time modifier to any single skill roll, which is still pretty much an automatic hit (apart from the ever-present threat of a SuperNatural Fumble).  But you can't use the dice to give bonuses to a unit's Skill Rating itself.  Instead, if the die is at least as large as the unit's Skill, then you can use it to give the unit a "blessing" or a "curse," meaning the unit rolls both its regular skill and the supernatural die, and uses the higher roll if it's a blessing, or the lower if it's a curse.

Also, along that vein, I'm still planning on adding in the Sniper unit who can nail any shot he pleases without having to roll Skill at all, as long as he's set up properly first.

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:04 pm
by Unlimited Overkill
stubby wrote:I'm still planning on adding in the Sniper unit who can nail any shot he pleases without having to roll Skill at all, as long as he's set up properly first.


:csi:  :man: !!!   :studgod:  (BTW, who's the stud god?  Is it stubby?)

Re: Spell-based Magicks

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:09 pm
by IVhorseman
I like the coinflip of headshot-or-tails, but I'm willing to see how it plays. With armor being as effective as it is, I can see why snipers being this damn powerful might end up being fairly balanced.