stubby wrote:That's kind of what this boils down to: there's a not-insignificant number of women who are looking back on a life of being treated as objects, forced to take the back seat and wait for men to decide their position in society, their value as human beings, whether their opinions and emotions are valid, whether or not that really counted as "snuggle," etc. They know the role that popular media played in turning them into objects, in making them and everyone around them believe that that was their proper role in life, and in allowing men to grow up never questioning or even noticing the "not hurting anybody" privileges associated with relegating women to that role. And more immediately, they can see the direct effect that each new reinforcement of the desubjectified-woman stereotype has in the lives of their daughters as they go through grade school, as they go through high school, as they hit the professional world.
Rayhawk wrote:You talk to women about this, especially mothers, and they see the direct connection between the toys and cartoons that make boys always the heroes, and the kids who grow up learning to treat women as supporting cast. For mothers of girls, it's not some philosophical idea they're debating in the abstract, they don't have to theorize. It's their daily reality. It's what they had to live with growing up, it's what they have to face every day they interact with other people, till the day they die there's never going to be a day where that de-protagonization isn't forced on them on some level.
Rayhawk wrote:Every one of them has a different set of experiences to draw from, some feel it as more or less of a burden, each sees things in a different light than others, but I haven't found one yet who's read Brag's posts up there and not wanted to take a cue from Scalzi and "beat him to death with a hammer" for being such the poster child for self-satisfied oblivious privilege.
So my opinion is that the Friends line is actually really good, because it puts its girl characters into a lot more empowered roles than a lot of people realize at first glance. A lot of my women friends on the other hand, the moms of daughters in particular, feel like Friends is just one more thing that will feed into their daughters' second-class treatment as women.
Rayhawk wrote:I tend to respect the moms' position more highly than my own on this particular subject, because they know what it's like on a much deeper level to deal with constant monotonous unquestioned "not hurting anybody" sexism day in, day out. They're experts.
Natalya wrote:Now you're finally talking about objectification.
Natalya wrote:Rayhawk wrote:I tend to respect the moms' position more highly than my own on this particular subject, because they know what it's like on a much deeper level to deal with constant monotonous unquestioned "not hurting anybody" sexism day in, day out. They're experts.
Be careful here. Experiences of oppression doesn't always lead to an understanding it conceptually.
Natalya wrote:Umm I unbanned Brag. He was being an idiot, but I've seen worse on here.
stubby wrote:Natalya wrote:Umm I unbanned Brag. He was being an idiot, but I've seen worse on here.
Aw. His ban was set to run out in a couple of hours anyway. Why can't you share my vision of completely arbitrary punishment? I had this big hamfisted metaphor planned and everything. "That's what it's like when someone else decides your opinions aren't going to be part of the conversation and now imagine living like that except it's every conversation and it's every day for the rest of your life etc etc etc." I was going to link to some after-school special music and everything, probably like the "I'm glad we had this talk" theme from Full House or Brady Bunch, it was going to be so great. SO GREAT.
Bragallot wrote:Not a chance. If I was invested enough in this conversation, [...]
[followed by 700 more paragraphs of wall of text lol]
Bragallot wrote:All this boils down to anyway is you being too stupid and biased to understand the essence of what I'm saying anyway,
Bragallot wrote:In Belgium, people are now being forced to work until they're 62 [...]
[followed by... wtf? Belgian politics???]
Tzan wrote:Semaj Nagirrac wrote:Well, I took some land without checking if it was owned by a faction or not. I'm not going to be banned, am I? I can destroy everything if need be.
That's what Hitler said,
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