CC Weapons Master and Vehicles

[Rev. Sylvanus]

Let's say that a minifig has CC Weapons master and is either piloting a small mechanized suit or driving a car with a ramming grille.  Would his CC Weapons Master ability apply to melee engagements he makes the suit (which using the suits CC weapons of course) or to charge attacts made by the car's ramming grille?

[Ben-Jammin]

Both, I would think.

[OneEye589]

I would say if anything, only the suit's weapons. However, it would depend because he would need to be a master of mechanical stuff to operate machines in the same way he does his own hands.

[Rev. Sylvanus]

And so the follow-up question would be whether someone with a special ability of the same tenor for RANGED attacks would get bonuses for operating vehicle guns?

[enders_shadow]

hmmm... I'd say yes, go for the bonus for both ranged + melee for a small hardsuit, as most designs have the actual movements of the pilot correspond to the actions of the suit. Cars, however.... I'd say no. then it becomes a matter of pilotsmanship(?) and not intuitive skill with marksman or cc weapons

[Arkbrik]

Considering that the Piloting specialty allows you to pilot anything from a rowboat to a horse to a mech to a capital ship, I'd say a CC Weapon Master gets a bonus with all CC weapons, including a car ramming grille.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

Let's say that a minifig has CC Weapons master and is either piloting a small mechanized suit or driving a car with a ramming grille.  Would his CC Weapons Master ability apply to melee engagements he makes the suit (which using the suits CC weapons of course) or to charge attacts made by the car's ramming grille?

I would say it all depends on what the specialty states. The CC weapon master specialty states that you get the bonuses whenever in CC so in this case you would get the bonuses in both cases.

[stubby]

I don't think it said this in bw05, but in bw10 (for those lucky few who have chapter 8 already) a piloted vehicle can't enter Close Combat unless the pilot is a Pilot.  (It can still make an attack with a CC weapon, but it can't enter the Attack-Counter-Attack-Counter type sequences of official CC.) So the upcoming answer is, you'd have to be both a CC Master and a Pilot for it to work.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

I don't think it said this in bw05, but in bw10 (for those lucky few who have chapter 8 already) a piloted vehicle can't enter Close Combat unless the pilot is a Pilot.  (It can still make an attack with a CC weapon, but it can't enter the Attack-Counter-Attack-Counter type sequences of official CC.) So the upcoming answer is, you'd have to be both a CC Master and a Pilot for it to work.

Why can't we read this! Can you say if the opponent does get counters though?

[stubby]

You can't read it because I only gave it to like, Silverdream.  Maybe a couple other guys too.

Close Combat Weapons
(see 5.2: Close Combat)
The functions of Close Combat Weapons are easy to scale upwards with Size. Giant swords and the like are just like the minifig versions with larger numbers attached; a Creation with a Close Combat weapon uses it to whack at targets the same way a minifig does. However, Creations are not always able to participate fully in the back-and-forth attacks of formal Close Combat. There are specific conditions under which Creations may have their abilities limited.

* Mindless: Unlike independent Creatures, a Creation being piloted by an Operator lacks the necessary reflexes to Counter attacks, unless the Operator has the Piloting Specialty (H.2: Riding a Horse).
* Too Big: Larger combatants lack the reflexes to Counter against opponents much smaller than themselves. A Creature or Pilot-operated Creation can Counter against an opponent with half its Size rating, but no smaller. Only a Size 0 Creature can Counter against another Size 0 Creature.
* Too Small: Creations can only Shove targets their own Size or smaller. In order to Shove targets larger than themselves, Creations have to team up, adding their Sizes together in a Combined Attack.
* Unmoving: Creations without some kind of leaping ability cannot use an Angry Inch when making attacks.

[aoffan23]

* Unmoving: Creations without some kind of leaping ability cannot use an Angry Inch when making attacks.[/list]

If you have something like a wheeled robot, would this mean it couldn't have an Angry Inch? Or could it be justified with a short overdrive for a burst of speed?

[stubby]

Depends too much on the particular robot and particular wheels, I'd leave that to a case-by-case WISG.  I guess it'd also depend on whether the wheels were pointed in the right direction for the Angry Inch; it's tough to make a car jump sideways.

[aoffan23]

it's tough to make a car jump sideways.

Thanks for clearing that up.