Re: Alternate History is dumb

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Postby Silent-sigfig » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:37 pm

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Postby Zupponn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:02 am

Silverdream wrote:
OneEye589 wrote:It doesn't matter who fought them the most, it would matter whose attacks made the most impact.


Okay, so wiping out 836,606 Axis troops is what we did on the western front. Pretty darn good until you consider we took around 2,905,420-3,043,860 casualties.

Now let's see how those Ruskis did. Probly pretty bad, I bet they killed 10 germans or something.

5,178,000+ Axis troops killed.
10,651,000 Soviet casualties.

Sure we may have killed Rommel, but the USSR did most of the work, the Finnish and Polish fought against the most overwhelming odds and the italian forces were a bunch of wussies who couldn't do anything right.

Firstly, I'm curious as to where you got your numbers from. They seem a little off to me.

Next, you are right, the Soviets did take on the brunt of the German military force, but it is not Soviet military might that stalled the Germans enough to make a counterattack. The Russians have always relied on Father Winter to save their asses when they most need it, and this time the winter stalled the German advance enough for the Soviets to regroup their forces and then counterattack in the spring.

The "race to Berlin" was won by the Soviets if that makes a difference in the argument. The Western allies experienced heavier counterattacks, and therefore were forced to move slower.

The Soviets failed to defeat the Finns, oddly enough.

Since the Western Allies had more experience against Japan while the Soviets had more experience against Germany, at the end of the war the Soviets had a better army while the West had a better navy.

Realistically, the Germans probably had little hope of defeating the US, UK, or the USSR because of the distance, their navy, and the amount of land mass they would have had to cover along with Father Winter, respectively.
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Postby Keldoclock » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:10 am

My grandfather died fighting for the USSR as a tank gunner.


I still have his medals. He was 16 at the time.
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Postby Silverdream » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:58 pm

Zupponn wrote:Firstly, I'm curious as to where you got your numbers from. They seem a little off to me.

Next, you are right, the Soviets did take on the brunt of the German military force, but it is not Soviet military might that stalled the Germans enough to make a counterattack. The Russians have always relied on Father Winter to save their asses when they most need it, and this time the winter stalled the German advance enough for the Soviets to regroup their forces and then counterattack in the spring.

The "race to Berlin" was won by the Soviets if that makes a difference in the argument. The Western allies experienced heavier counterattacks, and therefore were forced to move slower.

The Soviets failed to defeat the Finns, oddly enough.

Since the Western Allies had more experience against Japan while the Soviets had more experience against Germany, at the end of the war the Soviets had a better army while the West had a better navy.

Realistically, the Germans probably had little hope of defeating the US, UK, or the USSR because of the distance, their navy, and the amount of land mass they would have had to cover along with Father Winter, respectively.


The Soviets failed to defeat the Finns because they attacked right after the great purge(meaning most experienced generals were dead) and because the finns used guerilla tactics on the russians. Also because of the use of ski troops meant greater mobility in the winter terrain.

You're also missing the fact that the soviets would destroy resources so they wouldn't fall into German hands.

Yes germany was fucked. Maybe if Britain was under chamberlain or they used the wehrmacht in dunkirk or they woke up Piltogg and couterattacked the allies with rommel after d-day. But I really don't think that the axis could defeat Stalin. Maybe if Japan helped.
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Postby Ross_Varn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:58 pm

I'm now going to write a short based on our idiot perception of if the Axis defeated England and decided to start on the US. Expect it to be lame and end probably with US victory. You unpatriotic blaggarts...

...hmm, what if Canada was- ooo, that would be good, yes. Hm.
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Postby Silverdream » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:03 pm

Canada had the same role as in WWI. Elite troops and BRITAIN'S lifeline. England and Wales can go fuck themselves, Scotland and Ireland are where it's at.
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Postby Zupponn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:09 pm

Funny little fact: Right after Germany attacked the USSR Stalin lost his balls and ran away. It was only through the persuasion of his advisers and generals that he resumed command of the nation.
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Postby Silverdream » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:14 am

Zupponn wrote:Funny little fact: Right after Germany attacked the USSR Stalin lost his balls and ran away. It was only through the persuasion of his advisers and generals that he resumed command of the nation.


What? Source.
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Postby Zupponn » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:50 pm

Silverdream wrote:
Zupponn wrote:Funny little fact: Right after Germany attacked the USSR Stalin lost his balls and ran away. It was only through the persuasion of his advisers and generals that he resumed command of the nation.


What? Source.

There are citations on the Wikipedia page.
Wikipedia wrote:Accounts by Nikita Khrushchev and Anastas Mikoyan claim that, after the invasion, Stalin retreated to his dacha in despair for several days and did not participate in leadership decisions. However, some documentary evidence of orders given by Stalin contradicts these accounts, leading some historians to speculate that Khrushchev's account is inaccurate.

I was taught in my WWII class that this was true.
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Postby muffinman42 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:33 pm

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Postby Silverdream » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:41 pm

Zupponn wrote:
Silverdream wrote:
Zupponn wrote:Funny little fact: Right after Germany attacked the USSR Stalin lost his balls and ran away. It was only through the persuasion of his advisers and generals that he resumed command of the nation.


What? Source.

There are citations on the Wikipedia page.
Wikipedia wrote:Accounts by Nikita Khrushchev and Anastas Mikoyan claim that, after the invasion, Stalin retreated to his dacha in despair for several days and did not participate in leadership decisions. However, some documentary evidence of orders given by Stalin contradicts these accounts, leading some historians to speculate that Khrushchev's account is inaccurate.

I was taught in my WWII class that this was true.


Ah. So Khruschev is both a coward and a liar.
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Postby Zupponn » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:31 pm

Silverdream wrote:
Zupponn wrote:
Silverdream wrote:
Zupponn wrote:Funny little fact: Right after Germany attacked the USSR Stalin lost his balls and ran away. It was only through the persuasion of his advisers and generals that he resumed command of the nation.


What? Source.

There are citations on the Wikipedia page.
Wikipedia wrote:Accounts by Nikita Khrushchev and Anastas Mikoyan claim that, after the invasion, Stalin retreated to his dacha in despair for several days and did not participate in leadership decisions. However, some documentary evidence of orders given by Stalin contradicts these accounts, leading some historians to speculate that Khrushchev's account is inaccurate.

I was taught in my WWII class that this was true.


Ah. So Khruschev is both a coward and a liar.

I don't know. I could easily see either one being true, although I'm going to lean towards Khrushchev being truthful because of what I learned in the WWII class.
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Postby Robot Monkey » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:38 pm

muffinman42 wrote:Image


The blue one is Silva. The one being licked/snuggled is the forum.
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Postby Silverdream » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:47 pm

Robot Monkey wrote:
muffinman42 wrote:Image


The blue one is the forum. The one being licked/snuggled is Silvadream. I like to think he had some semblance of normalcy and sanity before he joined us.


Fix'd.

Interestingly enough this seems reminiscient of an old MS paint I did.

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Last edited by Silverdream on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tarren » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:52 pm

I like the think

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