Juggernaut Trait

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Juggernaut Trait

Postby BFenix » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:27 pm

I'm pretty sure it is sometimes though to determine your MOCs Structure Level, it happened to me several times. Imagine that you gaze at your finished 30-inch tall model of Godzilla. It would probably have a SL of 4, 5 or more. It's almost impossible (and I say almost because this is Brikwars) for it to be harmed by most minifig-held or small sized weapons. But let's say you have a way smaller MOC, like some killer alien robot, the size of three minifigs, plated with unknown ultra strong armor. You would give it a SL of 2 or 3 perhaps? Alright, but when you imagine something well armored like a tank; spears, arrows, bullets, small laser weapons, rocks, swords, etc... they just "ding" off right? Having no effect. So why not spare some time and cut a few points of the Base Cost on you killer alien robot and give it the Juggernaut ability?

Juggernaut (Special Creation Trait) Cost: 3 CP

This creation is invulnerable to damage from standard Minifig weapons up to Size Two weapons. All surface elements still maintain the creation's base Structure Level being two points weaker and take damage normally from more powerful weapons.

This trait can also be used on extremely powerful minifigs, except that it ignores the Surface Armor rule.

Example and minimally effective application of the Juggernaut trait on a creation:

After determining our Killer Alien Robot's Size and Structure Level, we would end up with a Base Cost of 8 (ex; S:4 x SL:2 = BC:8)
If we would want to upgrade it's SL by one, it would have a BC of 12. Yet, with Juggernaut it would cost one construction point less and would gain invulnerability to lesser weapons.


Of course that Juggernaut is far better used in either relatively smaller creations or poorly armored ones although its Surface Armor will still be a weak spot that your opponent might exploit.

I'll be using this trait on my soon-to-be-posted monstrosity.
Keep in mind that I never tested this rule before, so although it's meant to be so, it might be over powered.

C&C is welcome
Last edited by BFenix on Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby OneEye589 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:49 pm

Great idea, but I feel like it should scale with Size as well as Structure level if you're worried about balance. When you take into account how many weapons the enemy might have that could actually damage it, then it could be pretty ridiculous. If you have a literal 30 inch creation, even with a structure level of 2, it would need to take 10 hits to kill it from a strong weapon. One of the redeeming factors of a high structure level is that it makes things expensive and it can be ground down.

This is only concerned if you're worried about balance. Like I said, great idea, but balance-wise it needs to cost at least as much as the next Structure level would be.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:51 pm

What about things like combined fire? Why not re-word it so that instead of only taking damage from weapons of a certain size, you need at least two dice-worth of damage to puncture the armor?

In fact, you could just change it entirely so that it always shrugs off the damage dealt from one of the dice (determined BEFORE the damage roll).

EXAMPLE: Bill and Ted, armed with broken beer-bottle shivs (dealing 1d6 damage each), are attempting to fight off the grim reaper himself. However, being the juggernaut that he is, he is able to completely ignore either of their attacks, since he shaves off one of the d6s in their 1d6 damage. However, if Bill and Ted make a combined attack, the reaper is only able to remove one of the dice, taking an almost noticeable 1d6 damage!

In the event that multiple kinds of dice are used, juggernauts ignore whichever die they choose. If they opt to take a d10 of damage instead of a d6, that's entirely up to them.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby BFenix » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:55 pm

That's another look at it, yes.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby samuelzz10 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:17 pm

An example I made, only this time on weak-spots:

An immortal trooper got separated from his squad and got ambushed by a rouge in a hard-suit. The hard-suit contains an OT core and is indestructible to 1d6 weapons. Unfortunately, the immortal misplaced his weapon in a firefight, and his back-up pistol only does 1d6 damage. He then realizes the hard-suit has a patched up area and he does a skill roll to see if he can hit the patch. He has to roll at least 4 to hit the patch and he proceeds to break open the patch, meaning the hard-suit is now vulnerable to any weapon that is above/or 1d6. He gets a 6 on his weapon roll, causing the hard-suit to explode completely owning the pilot.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby OneEye589 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:16 pm

IVHorseman's fix would help with the whole situation. Ever heard the term "Tom Hanksing it?" It's totally Brikwarsy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC3IGts3Dyk

Watch that, but then take out the airplanes at the end. That's Tom Hanksing it. Thinking of it in terms of Brikwars, it would be a bunch of bonus dice/critical hit on the tank.

So imagine the tank had this Juggernaut thing. Measly 1d6 pistol damage literally bounces right off. But when Tom Hanks gets a bonus die or two, he deals damage to great effect. It should be limited by the amount of damage, not the size of the weapon.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:57 pm

OneEye589 wrote:So imagine the tank had this Juggernaut thing. Measly 1d6 pistol damage literally bounces right off. But when Tom Hanks gets a bonus die or two, he deals damage to great effect. It should be limited by the amount of damage, not the size of the weapon.


Actually, my suggestion was to remove a die BEFORE damage is applied, meaning no matter how many times tom hanks shot, he'd still only get to roll zero dice.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby OneEye589 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:15 am

Oh, well, in that case, where's the leeway for ridiculousness?
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby stubby » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:11 pm

samuelzz10 wrote: An immortal trooper got separated from his squad and got ambushed by a rouge in a hard-suit. The hard-suit contains an OT core and is indestructible to 1d6 weapons.

I'm trying to picture this but I'm not sure what armored cosmetics are doing on the battlefield.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby samuelzz10 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:48 pm

stubby wrote:
samuelzz10 wrote: An immortal trooper got separated from his squad and got ambushed by a rouge in a hard-suit. The hard-suit contains an OT core and is indestructible to 1d6 weapons.

I'm trying to picture this but I'm not sure what armored cosmetics are doing on the battlefield.
This must be the worst spelling mistake ever. I meant rogue.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby IVhorseman » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:38 pm

OneEye589 wrote:Oh, well, in that case, where's the leeway for ridiculousness?


dual-weilding, homie
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby Robot Monkey » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Might have to do this with my Uber-Titan and Omega Doom mecha. You never know when some dick will make incredible damage rolls with a rifle or something, and send the whole mech crashing down.

Great idea, BFenix!
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby Ham701 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:34 pm

Oh no, how dare someone roll a critical and possibly destroy RM's shit! MUST USE OVERPOWERED PROTECTION FROM THAT.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby Silverdream » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:57 pm

Unrelated:

This one time, my friend destroyed my APC filled with my best troops with one shot from an anti tank gun. It led to my flank being obliterated, and forced me into an alliance with my other friend. Long story short, we ran out of time but I have no doubt he would've trounced us in 2 more turns.
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Re: Juggernaut Trait

Postby BFenix » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:33 pm

Silverdream wrote:Unrelated:

This one time, my friend destroyed my APC filled with my best troops with one shot from an anti tank gun. It led to my flank being obliterated, and forced me into an alliance with my other friend. Long story short, we ran out of time but I have no doubt he would've trounced us in 2 more turns.


If you had used Juggernaut, the situation could have ended in two ways. Your opponents AT gun could be size 2 or less, in which case your APC and troops would come out unharmed or it was bigger, he scored a critical or something and nothing could be done. If it would be overpowered as our friend Ham here suggests, you can nerf it down as you wish or use the alternate rules IV came up with.
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