I have a question about vehicle claws.

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I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby BrickWarrior » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:17 pm

You see I got a big truck with a long claw on it,
Image
It's mostly for support. (Moving stuff that is in the way, placing blocks to make a protective wall, etc.)
But it does have a offensive side...
It picks up foes and drops them into a blender.
Image Image
So what I was wondering is,
does this take a dice roll to pick up my foes and blend them?
Or does count as picking up an object?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:26 pm

It probably should, but there's no grab/struggle rules for brikwars. Technically, I think this might count as a grapple.

When I play brikwars and someone decides to try and hold onto or hold down someone else (to drown them or light them on fire perhaps), I just roll skill versus skill. To sustain a grab, roll again to make sure you keep hold of them. There should also be some kind of bonus to grabs for size though, such as when a compensating heavy tries to smother a motherfucker or the usage of a large claw as you have.

Maybe a simple +1 to the grab roll for each inch of size? +1d6 sounds like a bit too much. For being up to double the size of the grabbed object you can use your creation's entire size, but at anything past that you use the measurement of the hand, claw, or constricting tentacle. In the case of giant snake-like creations, this measurement may be the same regardless.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby Pwnerade » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:43 pm

:sparta:
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby BrickWarrior » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:31 pm

Ok, thank you sir. :)
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby mgb519 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:29 pm

I'd say make it a given in this case, because you've already overcome the skill penalty for that massive arm and by that point anything that brikwarsy deserves to cause some proper violence. Red tape isn't bloody enough for me on this one.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:44 pm

But what's the use rating?
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby OneEye589 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:56 pm

I would just say make it a melee weapon, but you can choose to pick up a target instead of damaging it by making a damage roll. The object being picked up also needs to be the same size or smaller as the claw.

It still makes sense with armor, as something with armor would be heavier and harder to pick up.

So say it's a size 2 claw picking up an armored minifig (6 Armor). Before attacking, declare if it's a damage attack or a grab attack. If you succeed the skill roll, roll 2d6. If you beat the 6 Armor of the minifig, it's picked up.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby stubby » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 am

Grapple rules are the downfall of so many systems. The plans say I should have some ready for chapter nine but what a pain in the butt. My current feeling is to do this:


Grabbing somebody within reach succeeds automatically, unless they Bail or Counter with a weapon or shield (a Counterattack works just as well as a Parry). No Skill Roll required, but it uses up however many limbs you're using to make the Grab, although you can immediately throw the guy you just grabbed if your limbs are big enough to act as a Launcher. Better do it quick though, if he Grabs you back on his own turn then he's stuck to you and can't be Launched.

While Grabbed, melee attacks and Counterattacks between the Grabber and Grabbee automatically hit - again, unless the target bails or parries. Larger weapons will be unable to attack in a lot of cases, since there won't be room to swing them at that close range.

Being Grabbed causes a movement penalty if the unit Grabbing you is your own size or larger. This penalty is equal to -1" for each minifig arm grabbing you, or -1d6" times the Size of the limbs for larger limbs. If you can overcome that penalty, you escape the grab and can keep moving around (although you're probably still in Close Combat). Grabbed units shouldn't stay Grabbed for long in most cases, so whatever you want to do to them you need to do quick.

If the unit Grabbing you is smaller, then running off just drags it along with you - you have to knock it away with KnockBack inches somehow, by whacking it into a weapon or smashing it into something.


My other idea is to just have Grabs broken by a regular Shove, but that seems less satisfying.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:04 pm

My gut instinct is just to say that there shouldn't be any grapple rules at all, honestly.

I like the idea that grabs succeed automatically, and the whole "melee attacks automatically hit" thing, but counting how many limbs are grabbing a minifig start miring the system down in the bog of horrendously complicated grabs. And why only -1" if a minifig is grabbed with one hand? If my knight goes up to grab a peasant and just start slashing the shit out of him with a shortsword, I imagine he'd expend 1d6" towards holding the peasant down, rather than letting him run off. It also works great for hostage situations, and minifig shields.

Breaking grabs with shoves doesn't seem all that unsatisfying either. If you do that along with a (size)d6" move penalty, the grabbed unit will drag the grabbing one along with it, UNLESS they spend an action to shove. So a grabbed peasant might be able to run to the nearby laser rifle, but he'll drag the knight along with him, and the knight's resistance is likely to cut him short of that goal.

Smaller units grabbing should definitely be impossible to simply shove off though, either kill it or charge it into something to knock it off.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby BrickWarrior » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:52 pm

I will be sure to keep note of all of these posts.
I will also see what the people I battle with think of it to.
Thanks again.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby Xenoman » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:29 pm

I've never had an incident come up like this in any of the games I've played, but I'd have to agree with OneEye on his take: using a skill roll, and then stating whether it will be a damage or a grab attack. That makes the entire action a lot more simplified, in case one had an army of, oh, I don't know... an entire legion of massive soldier crabs marching in unison and slicing minifigs in half at the waist?

Cool blender, by the way, really digging it.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby stubby » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:22 pm

IVhorseman wrote:My gut instinct is just to say that there shouldn't be any grapple rules at all, honestly.

I like the idea that grabs succeed automatically, and the whole "melee attacks automatically hit" thing, but counting how many limbs are grabbing a minifig start miring the system down in the bog of horrendously complicated grabs. And why only -1" if a minifig is grabbed with one hand? If my knight goes up to grab a peasant and just start slashing the shit out of him with a shortsword, I imagine he'd expend 1d6" towards holding the peasant down, rather than letting him run off. It also works great for hostage situations, and minifig shields.

True, but have you ever watched UFC? Grabs between minifigs make battles boring as hell, so I want to make them near-useless. If you grab someone this turn, he's going to escape next turn if he wants to, so you'd better hurry your ass up and do whatever you were going to do with that grab.

The reason we need grapple rules at all is because sometimes minifigs fight with giants. If I can't have my giant pick up a minifig and throw it at other minifigs, then BrikWars is a failure.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:00 pm

I'll playtest it and let you know how it goes over.
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby Foggy » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:41 pm

Lemme think grabbin' stuff...
Needs to be grabbed? Walk up and grab it. You can't move or attack, he can't move or attack, have a tango.
Stop being grabbed? Standard attack to shove him off, you get to move but no more attacks that round.
Grab something bigger than you? What? WHY?! Congrats, it'll continue to move and you'll dangle along.
Big grabbing small? Done, AND you can chuck the sucker. Oh, and 1d10 damage if you wanna crush 'im. <-- This part applies to the crane arm.

Now on to tackling...
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Re: I have a question about vehicle claws.

Postby IVhorseman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:04 pm

Foggy wrote:Now on to tackling...


Charging shove. If you're grabbing, you'd sail through the air with them.

What I can't figure out is if, with the whole automatically hit in melee thing, a minifig armed with a minifig-sized CC weapon with their other hand open (as opposed to holding a shield, their only other option) is allowed to grab and stab his opponents for automatic hits?
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