New Editions

[Ben-Jammin]

Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think whenever a new edition for a game comes out? Do you get fearful that the rules will be changed to the point where it is no longer really fun and/or recognizable? Or do you just go ahead and embrace it regardless?

I just saw that the new edition of Warhammer 40k is available for pre-order, and it got me thinking. A good thing about 40k is that you can use the same stuff from years ago without any real changes; I've seen Imperial armies with sentinels in them from like the 90s. Not all games are like that though. Take D&D for instance. 3rd edition D&D was one of my absolute favorite games-miniatures too-but then 4th edition came and screwed it all up for me.

So, what do you guys think of this?

[knolli]

The only true answer you can have to this question is: "Depends."

There are so many factors that you can never know if the new version is better or worse. And who says what is good or bad anyway? There will always be those who say: "They should have kept true to the original!",  "All this experimentation just went wrong!", "These new features just don't fit the theme" and "How could they change this aspect?! It was what made this game special"; and then there are those who say: "These new features they included are the hit! It's better than the old game in every aspect. Good thing they got rid of this annoying part."

And often you will hear: "I like this new feature but not that other one." Unfortunately too often "this one" just means the new graphics.

Personally I am rather on the skeptic side and consider carefully if the update will be worth it. But fortunately there are demos of most games to help you there.

[morganm]

I usually think "great...  a bazillion more pages to read to play a game that took me years to understand fully..."

I'm done with thick rule books.  I want to spend my game time playing the game or creating new stuff or the next game.  I don't like spending hours of my precious little game time reading overly complicated rules or debating their adjudication at the game table.

[IVhorseman]

Just play what's fun. If a new edition comes out with some ideas you like and some you hate, salvage what you can and see if your party likes it.

[Robot Monkey]

What IV said.

40K 6th edition looks good so far, and the addition of "allies" in regular games could either make or break the game, we'll just have to see. My friends and I tend to add in rules wherever needed, and remove some of the cheaper ones, like the "half the squad's in cover, so all of them get the 4+ save" and the "my strength doubles your toughness, instant death".

That's another thing I like about 40K, the units stay the same, and the models only change slightly. Plus, it's cool seeing models from 40K's first days.

[samuelzz10]

If talking about technology and videogames in general, (I don't play enough tabletop games) then I love and hate new versions. I am pretty upset with the fact that every half year a new iphone comes out, but also love it when a videogame comes out that fixes all of the old issues. But then I hate it when the sequel sucks. it will never be perfect.

[Keldoclock]

Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think whenever a new edition for a game comes out? Do you get fearful that the rules will be changed to the point where it is no longer really fun and/or recognizable? Or do you just go ahead and embrace it regardless?

I just saw that the new edition of Warhammer 40k is available for pre-order, and it got me thinking. A good thing about 40k is that you can use the same stuff from years ago without any real changes; I've seen Imperial armies with sentinels in them from like the 90s. Not all games are like that though. Take D&D for instance. 3rd edition D&D was one of my absolute favorite games-miniatures too-but then 4th edition came and screwed it all up for me.

So, what do you guys think of this?

For your D&D woes, check out Pathfinder, they have a minis line too.

My general attitude to tabletop game editions is always cautious optimism in the hopes that they fix age-old problems without becoming less fun.

Am I the minority in liking super complex rules systems?

[Ben-Jammin]

Am I the minority in liking super complex rules systems?

No, I like them too, I'm just too lazy to implement them in a game. I guess reading through the rulebooks and learning about them make me feel smart for once.

[knolli]

Am I the minority in liking super complex rules systems?

No, I like them too, I'm just too lazy to implement them in a game. I guess reading through the rulebooks and learning about them make me feel smart for once.

I started my career with one of the these complicated rule systems. By now I am weary of it, but others like to have a rule for everthing and ask you to make up to 10 different die rolls to determine how many hours you need to make a new handle for your axe. Or they discuss the flying speed of a carrier pigeon and try to find/makeup rules for it. The discussion is several forum pages long, I heard. To summon or banish a demon, you have to go through a long checklist of possibly influental factors: Knowledge of its True Name, quality of offerings, summoners robes, order of stars, summoning circle, quality of candles, quality ot the chalk you used for the summoning circle, strength of demon you want to summon, a demon pact you might have,... All these modificators and their value are written down. It's a wonder that it doesn't matter what you ate for breakfast.

There are simply too many rules, it's impossible to use them all. Some are simply unneccessary or kill the fun, like those for environmental damage, that make you freeze to death within minutes in a chilly autumn's breeze. Although it might be "realistic", it's just no fun to play. Same with stamina in fights. You already have enough other things to keep track on, adding another one just slows down the action even further and the additional tactical deepth simply isn't worth that.

[Keldoclock]

Systems like Burning Wheel that loosely simulate medieval combat and allow narrative to affect combat are totally awesome, though!