BrikWiki

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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:01 pm

Ok, ok, fair enough.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:03 pm

Though it occurs to me that I may have bungled that plan with consolidating the generic stuff like Structures.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby stubby » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:15 pm

BUT - all that being said - I still think that people who are rolling up their sleeves and getting their hands dirty are going to figure out what works and what doesn't a lot faster than any discussion of theoretical wiki perfection in a forum thread. And it's all easy to change around later in any case. So there's no real reason to sweat over whether there's a "right" way to do wikis.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Bragallot » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:38 pm

Quantumsurfer wrote:
stubby wrote:I may go back in later and break all the big pages apart into more n00b-friendly chunks. I don't want to have to read a big wall of text anytime it's not completely necessary.


That's a really good idea. So long as there is still ease in navigation. Maybe a sidebar template that lists all the parts on each part page so users don't have to click out or go back and then click back in.


Isn't that the index?

I understand the need for quick, comprehensible pages. I can write very matter-of-factly and probably shorten texts by +- 1/3 if that's what you want, but then I'm in danger of making the text very stale, which is worse to read than a wall-o-text imo (and the 'wall-o-text' is usually barely 1 page in word, a lot of the length is due to lists of links). It's fine when you're for instance describing a vehicle or a (minor) character, which can be done in a couple of sentences but if it's a story summary, you want to get a certain flow going.

Then again, I linked to the topics, so people could always read those directly (which would ironically enough take longer :)).
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby stubby » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:02 pm

There's nothing wrong with giving a subject the space it needs to breathe, especially when it comes to backstories. I think we hit a pretty good balance on the old wiki, when it came to pages that could be short and pages that needed to be long.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:18 pm

There are some I'd have a difficult time breaking up. That faction I just posted, for example. You've got a solid point about the flow, Brag. I have a writing style that seems conducive to prologues and concepts, which is why I can write some of the wiki articles but the issue with that approach is that I tend to develop a cadence that I'm not sure would survive being broken up. Could probably break some of the alternate dimension articles into their categories, maybe. I don't know. It bears thinking about.

Bragallot wrote:Isn't that the index?


Kind of, yeah. But I meant on a given page. So, like, with structures. Page considers famous, tactical, evironmental, utility. Tactical category considers airport, armory, bunker, castle, etc. So if I was instead on Tactical Page, I'd one click airport in sidebar. It appears in the space with no scrolling. I'm done reading it, I click armory in the sidebar, it appears in the space no scrolling. Etcetera. each page has same format, same sidebar so it looks only like the text is changing. But I was thinking too aggressively about it. Trying to spoon feed the reader. Its easy to get caught up in organizational detail and over-organize. Stubby has a good point about tabs...kinda what they're there for.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Bragallot » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:37 pm

When you're writing (a summary of) a story, it's good to think about the flow. People who want to read it are going to be interested anyway, or they wouldn't have clicked. What's important though is that the information is relevant, and that reading the summary of the story actually gives the reader a better idea of what happened than when he had simply read all the battle reports (which can also take a long time and doesn't always give you a lot of information, it kinda gets swallowed up in all of the action...). The summary of the Prussian-Monarchial Conflict for example might seem like it has some stuff in it that I just made up, but it actually pertains to PM's (Semaj's offers of building / repairing Prussian ships, for example) and comments (the diplomacy between the Immortal Empire and the Inquistadores which mostly happened in regular posts of me and Warhead which people would otherwise have no access to or could easily miss when reading a battle report (and thus ignoring the comments).

When it comes to factions, the comprehensive style seems to work, I tried it on my own faction. http://brikwars.com/wiki/index.php?titl ... ian_Empire

It has only the most essential information and is quick and easy to get through (I think). If people want to know more (STARSHIP TROOPERS! *squee*) they can always click the links (well, once they have pages). Seems better than beating them around the head with the information immediately.

My main concern now is getting the most important factions up, which would probably be the ASE, VoL and some others I've seen in battles a lot, unless someone gets there before I do (which I would be fine with, really). I'll probably use the same, comprehensive format and take the most important information from their old pages. Then I'll probably move on to (important) characters.

Some (not too many) pictures would probably also help the faction pages look better, right now I'm focusing on written content though.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby stubby » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:57 pm

Quantumsurfer wrote:So if I was instead on Tactical Page, I'd one click airport in sidebar. It appears in the space with no scrolling. I'm done reading it, I click armory in the sidebar, it appears in the space no scrolling.

My problem with this approach is that it's hard for me to imagine how information about an armory would be useful to someone who wanted to read about an airport. Like if I went to dictionary.com and it gave me scans of dictionary pages instead of just the word I was looking for, I would be scratching my head.

Getting more info about factions and characters up will be a big help, because the wiki is most valuable to me when I'm researching other people's characters and storylines to incorporate into my own stuff. In the long run I'd really like to give all the forum battles their own pages, because (especially researching QoP battles for my Grail story going on right now) it takes a lot of work to get the overall gist when the turns are spread across multiple threads with all the players' posts in the middle.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Bragallot » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:15 pm

I noticed factions starting as 'The'* are categorized under 'T' ... You can remove the 'The' to stop this, but if it's like The Kingdom of... , the Empire of... you'll probably still get a faulty classification.

I also tried to define the BrikVerse on the category page so it wouldn't be empty, and my head nearly exploded.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Tzan » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:13 pm

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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Kalvinator » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:27 pm

Tzan wrote:http://brikwars.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beige_carpet


(Looks down at beige carpet) MY GOD, HE'S RIGHT!
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby stubby » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:57 am

I've started to think that the fundamental nature of the BrikVerse is not based in worlds, but in planes. Specifically, horizontal planes, not necessarily connected but all supported in one way or another by a beige carpet.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:38 am

Bragallot wrote:The summary of the Prussian-Monarchial Conflict for example might seem like it has some stuff in it that I just made up, but it actually pertains to PM's (Semaj's offers of building / repairing Prussian ships, for example) and comments (the diplomacy between the Immortal Empire and the Inquistadores which mostly happened in regular posts of me and Warhead which people would otherwise have no access to or could easily miss when reading a battle report (and thus ignoring the comments).


I especially like this. I agree with everything else. I am also focusing on written content but I think I'm better directed at the conceptual stuff (to be clear, I mean personally...you guys are just as good for it or better in some cases) while you guys, Brag and Stubby and anyone who wants to add in stuff about their own faction, are good for factions. I know about most of them, but my understanding is nowhere near as intimate as yours, especially since, for a long time, I just sort of scanned Forum Battles for the gist.

stubby wrote:My problem with this approach is that it's hard for me to imagine how information about an armory would be useful to someone who wanted to read about an airport. Like if I went to dictionary.com and it gave me scans of dictionary pages instead of just the word I was looking for, I would be scratching my head.


That's...a really good point. Which do you think is the better approach? PoliceStations and Airports are logically going to have to be grouped into the same general category, Structures in this case, but is it better to allow them separate entries a reader can ignore the link to if he isn't interested or is it better to include them all in a list of other generics that the reader can scroll past if he isn't interested? Or did you have a third solution in mind?

stubby wrote:like to give all the forum battles their own pages


Yes. I added this to the Wiki Projects page a couple of days ago. Most of the BrikVerse narrative is told through these reports and it would help newcomers greatly to be able to make heads or tails of the canon and relevant storylines. Hell, it'd help veterans make sense of everything.

Bragallot wrote:I also tried to define the BrikVerse on the category page so it wouldn't be empty, and my head nearly exploded.


Its been bothering me too. I've been gearing up to write it. I think, if I write it, that I will take the tack of presenting it like you would to newcomers...a sort of prologue or foreward that, in broad sweeping terms defines both the real aspect and the fictional aspect of brikwars. And I want to keep the links to the biggest ideas but I also want to expand those links to things like Mike's foreward in the 2005 edition, which is particularly enlightening and helps a newbie feel a lot more familiar with the entire idea.

stubby wrote:I've started to think that the fundamental nature of the BrikVerse is not based in worlds, but in planes. Specifically, horizontal planes, not necessarily connected but all supported in one way or another by a beige carpet.


So have I, especially since I've written the Astral Plate, The Battle Plates of Ragnablok, The NegaVerse, and dropped hints all around about the Far-Ums, which I'll get to soonish. I've been thinking of the Legitimitium MultiVerse as the over structure under which is grouped all of the above plus other LEGO Universes (from the BrikWars perspective). And I've been thinking of the Astral Plate as the understructure that ties all (or most of) those universes and dimensions together. I've been thinking of the Beige Carpet (I just noticed we have two articles now, I'll consolidate when I can) as that sneaky fucker that has wormed its way into all realities.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Keldoclock » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:59 am

How do you explain hardwood floor then?
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Apollyon » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:26 am

stubby wrote:I've started to think that the fundamental nature of the BrikVerse is not based in worlds, but in planes. Specifically, horizontal planes, not necessarily connected but all supported in one way or another by a beige carpet.



Briktopian scientists knew this ever since G.R. 2010.

wiki wrote:The system of Reval is only a few sectors away from Strazzel IX where the Briktopians originated. It consists of several two-dimensional planes floating in space. Some of the planes are covered with baseplates but most of them are barren plains with a few brick constructions here and there. The minifigs do not know what these planes are made of, neither does it matter to them. They are solid, they can walk, build and fight on them.
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