Parrying ranged in melee

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Parrying ranged in melee

Postby Bragallot » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:28 pm

If two mini's are in cc, and one is shot at by a third, can he attempt to parry it?

And what if the third minifig closes for cc outside of the target's LoS? :phil:
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lawmaster wrote:Kill the guy I'm in cc with.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Bragallot wrote:If two mini's are in cc, and one is shot at by a third, can he attempt to parry it?


If he has an action left and it isn't from a rifle shot or something similar, then sure.

Bragallot wrote:And what if the third minifig closes for cc outside of the target's LoS? :phil:


I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby IVhorseman » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:40 pm

You can only parry ranged attacks with energy-based melee weapons: not even shields. If you exceed the parry roll by at least the use rating of the ranged attack, you may re-direct the shot back at the target!

If a third minifig joins the fray, just treat it as regular CC combat.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:23 pm

IVhorseman wrote:You can only parry ranged attacks with energy-based melee weapons: not even shields.

I think Mike changed that in the 2010 version.
This is what it says under the Shield section:
A Shield is like a Hand Weapon devoted exclusively for Parrying (5.2: Close Combat), although they can sometimes also be handy for Shoving opponents into proper position for a follow-up attack. A minifig can Parry a wider range of incoming attacks with a Shield than with a regular Hand Weapon, including Joust attacks (H.3: Fighting From Horseback), Crash Damage, thrown weapons, and even some slower projectiles like arrows and slingshot bullets (although not, for instance, rifle rounds or lightning bolts).
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby Colette » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:27 pm

IVhorseman wrote:You can only parry ranged attacks with energy-based melee weapons: not even shields. If you exceed the parry roll by at least the use rating of the ranged attack, you may re-direct the shot back at the target!

If a third minifig joins the fray, just treat it as regular CC combat.

I'm assuming an energy shield can parry ranged attacks, right?

Also, how would you stat an energy field built into the ground, ie:
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby Bragallot » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:22 am

That would probably be seen as cover that can reflect damage.

I only let shields parry arrows and the like, not muskets or magic missiles... unless it's a special shield.

By the second example I meant if two mini's are fighting, and one of them is attacked from behind (or from the side, anyway, outside of the fighting mini's line of sight).
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lawmaster wrote:
Bragallot wrote:
lawmaster wrote:Kill the guy I'm in cc with.
He's already dead.
Kill him again.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:29 am

Well your second example also has a very simple answer. In the rulebook it says that you can only use a respond action on something the minifig could have actually anticipated or in your line of sight. So in your case the minifig didn't see or know that he was being shot at and thus can't parry the shot.
The thing is that minifigs in CC will probably never get the chance to parry incoming fire because they probably have no response action left because they spent it on CC.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby IVhorseman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:25 pm

*CRAZYHORSE* wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:You can only parry ranged attacks with energy-based melee weapons: not even shields.

I think Mike changed that in the 2010 version.
This is what it says under the Shield section:
A Shield is like a Hand Weapon devoted exclusively for Parrying (5.2: Close Combat), although they can sometimes also be handy for Shoving opponents into proper position for a follow-up attack. A minifig can Parry a wider range of incoming attacks with a Shield than with a regular Hand Weapon, including Joust attacks (H.3: Fighting From Horseback), Crash Damage, thrown weapons, and even some slower projectiles like arrows and slingshot bullets (although not, for instance, rifle rounds or lightning bolts).


There's talk about this getting changed once 2010 comes out. In the newer ruleset, shields wouldn't parry ANY ranged attacks, but WOULD grant partial cover if applicable. There'd be a second classification of "heavy" shields potenitally, and I'm not sure if those ones are the only ones that grant cover or not.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby stubby » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

IVhorseman wrote:There's talk about this getting changed once 2010 comes out. In the newer ruleset, shields wouldn't parry ANY ranged attacks, but WOULD grant partial cover if applicable. There'd be a second classification of "heavy" shields potenitally, and I'm not sure if those ones are the only ones that grant cover or not.

I still haven't made the deicision about heavy shields. Regular shields will most likely be able to parry thrown weapons and provide potential cover against all other ranged attacks. However, because of the way cover works, it will be very rare that a regular-sized shield will be in the right position and pointing the right direction to cover any part of a minifig completely enough to provide a bonus.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby IVhorseman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:40 pm

Right, but what happens when all your figs employ tower shields? My buddy and I have been using the stands that come with the collectible minifigs as shields - and those cover a LOT of area. Even a minifig with a regular shield can position it in a way where it upgrades their 1/3 cover bonus to 2/3. It's a lot less rare than you think.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby stubby » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:06 pm

The part I forgot to mention is that minifigs aren't allowed to "actively" parry against ranged attacks other than thrown weapons. If they are already pointing their shields in the right direction when the ranged attacks are made, then yeah, they can be useful. But if the attacker is able to move the firing position two inches to the right, it's usually enough to see at least a little bit of whatever body section the shields were covering.

What it means is that if you know exactly which direction you'll be taking fire from, you can set up your defense appropriately, but if you're outflanked, you're toast. And it will naturally be much tougher to shoot around the shields of hoplites in turtle formation.

I might allow units to spend an Action to keep a shield between themselves and a specific attacker, but it might be a shade more complexity than it's worth unless I can bundle it in with the generalized response action rule.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby IVhorseman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:59 pm

stubby wrote:I might allow units to spend an Action to keep a shield between themselves and a specific attacker, but it might be a shade more complexity than it's worth


Most likely yes.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby Pwnerade » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:03 pm

This seems like a good plan, since most projectiles move way too fast for you to move your shield in time. Unless a volley of arrows is coming from really far away. But in that case you just hold up your shield and hope for the best, rather than trying to block a single arrow. Or at least that's how I'd imagine it goes. Only parrying thrown attacks seems reasonable. Spending an action to black against an individual attacker seems too complicated, and would lead to arguments about who was blocking who.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby Zupponn » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:48 am

A minifig can Parry a wider range of incoming attacks with a Shield than with a regular Hand Weapon, including Joust attacks (H.3: Fighting From Horseback), Crash Damage, thrown weapons, and even some slower projectiles like arrows and slingshot bullets (although not, for instance, rifle rounds or lightning bolts).

I can parry lightning bolts.
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Re: Parrying ranged in melee

Postby Bragallot » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:47 pm

Zupponn wrote:I can parry lightning bolts.


Can you parry bullets, too?
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