BrikWiki

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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Natalya » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:36 am

Maybe Tek Level should be about fastest propulsion technology.

0 = Foot
1 = Horse or Dragon
2 = Sail
3 = Steam
4 = Combustion (Includes Chemical Rockets) and Nuclear
5 = Warp Speed
6 = Wormholes
7 = Interdimensional Travel

A complex Chemical Rocket necessitates chemistry. If you have chemistry you will quickly learn basic nuclear principals and be able to develop a nuclear rocket or submarine or boat.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby stubby » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:38 pm

Why are we interested in TekLevel numbers? Maybe if we know what we're trying to achieve, it'll make it easier to make decisions about what would work best to achieve it.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Tzan » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:07 pm

I suppose its a definition of time period without using the earth/dumbfuck method for time keeping, years.
So then you switch to a description of the teknology that is available in a time period. Like you suggested.
Then an anorak like me needs to make an organized list with numbers. Like Steve Jackson did, and I'm assuming several others.
So I guess it has a precedent in history for having a number. People are just conforming to the accepted way its been done for decades.

When I was messing around with my computer game and thinking about time periods, I defined them with a description of the period.

Ancient
Roman
Medieval
Napoleonic
World War
Modern (Computer Age)
Apocalypse
Space
Space Apocalypse
Ascension

After modern, the timeline can branch to either Apoc or Space.
You could put the word "Age" after them.

I'm not suggesting this for Brikwars, just saiyan.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Natalya » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:38 pm

stubby wrote:Why are we interested in TekLevel numbers? Maybe if we know what we're trying to achieve, it'll make it easier to make decisions about what would work best to achieve it.

The fuck did you just say to me? I'll have you know I graduated the top of my class in the Navy SEALS and have over 300 confirmed kills in Iraq of Al-Quaida terrorists. You are nothing to me but another target. I will wipe the floor with your bloody corpse before feeding it to my rotweillers.


Okay j/k the reason I like them is because they can be used to give approximations of the kind of techknowlogy a civilization might be expected to have, especially in a battle. It also helps with the story-telling aspect of BrikWars.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:32 pm

I can see them as both good and bad, though, myself, I don't consider them much. On the one hand, they're awkward precisely because this is a multi-genre game/setting concept. When you have star knights leaping from helicopters to support your line of steam-powered musketmen, defining a technology level using a relative numerical value is kind of a moot point. Better to use descriptive words and give the reader the benefit of the doubt that they'll be able to figure it out. On the other hand, for those familiar with the categorizations, a single number serves as a keyword to an entire concept, thus providing them with a general understanding of an entire faction literally at a glance.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby pkbrennan » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:19 pm

It might well turn out best to dispense with tek levels and go for a more descriptive system as Stubby suggests.

For example, I would describe the ideas I am playing around with like this:

Teknology: Steam & Diesel Punk with some high tek and urban fantasy elements.
Theme: "Indiana Jones" meets Iron Sky and rent-an-adventuring-mob.


This is far more descriptive than "Tek 4", although that could be used to denote the highest level of Tek one is likely to see in the forces used.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:26 pm

pkbrennan wrote:You got pics of this space 1889 stuff please? Or linkies? :mrgreen:


Space 1889 was a Victorian era tabletop RPG. Came out in the 80s, reprinted early 2000s, recent stories set in the setting came out a couple of years ago with the steampunk fad. Basically, it's a parallel universe where the romantic technologies turned out to be true and viable. Edison invented a way for ships to travel through the ether (space) and went to Mars, which was of course, inhabited. Colonization of solar system occurs and we've got victorian colonies (representative of the "great nations") throughout space. So it's like steampunk pulp. Quick google search'll get you there.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:30 pm

I say go for it. This seems like another preference thing to me, like the time scheme.

It works either way. Anyone familiar with the TLs as they stand now should be able to look at your desc. and assign a number to it if they're so inclined. If they use a number to reflect their own faction, it's simple enough to look it up for someone who isn't already familiar with the current TLs.

Adding a Theme is a fantastic idea...I've been trying to represent my themes by using descriptive terms for structure, which only works sometimes.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Bragallot » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:08 pm

I kinda like the tek levels the way they are, even though the last one seems impossible to achieve.

If you're going to base them on movement, that would mean the Falx for instance would be Tek Level 7, because they can perform inter-dimensional travel through magic portals...
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Pwnerade » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:32 pm

Most of our battles are either medieval or space, although the steampunk stuff gets harder to define. Since bows, muskets, rifles, and lasers are all long-range weapons and have the same stats, tek-level is merely for describing a faction. It won't have much effect on actual gameplay. The generalized rules for all tek-levels is one of my favorite features of the 2005/10 rules. It makes things much simpler. Therefore, I don't really think we need a rigid list of numbered tek-levels. A basic description of a faction's teknology will do nicely.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Bragallot » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:30 pm

I've included mention of technology in all of the faction pages I've written up til now, you can always have both.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Natalya » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:41 pm

To be clear, I don't feel like they should be used to modify the rules of the game anymore. The way they worked in 2001 was good, but 2005 and 2010 do fine without them.

Bragallot wrote:I kinda like the tek levels the way they are, even though the last one seems impossible to achieve.

If you're going to base them on movement, that would mean the Falx for instance would be Tek Level 7, because they can perform inter-dimensional travel through magic portals...


Not really, that would be Magik not Techknowlogy.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Natalya wrote:Tek Level 2 (...) Associated Techknowlogy (...) magik
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Bragallot » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:27 am

Pwnerade wrote:Since bows, muskets, rifles, and lasers are all long-range weapons and have the same stats, tek-level is merely for describing a faction. It won't have much effect on actual gameplay.


In theory, yes, but practically, everyone's Sci-fi armies are usually vastly different from any Fantasy armies and a lot if not most ranged weapons are going to have customized stats. Then there's all the creations which affect gameplay, the terrain... You should just compare some Fantasy and Scifi battles to see the effect on the gameplay.

Natalya wrote:Not really, that would be Magik not Techknowlogy.


It is magic, I was giving the example to show how confusing it can get. It's also possible to have fast propulsion techniques and almost no weapon tech, in a civilization that's not as based on warfare, for example.

The current tek levels are fine imo. I don't want the first person to write 'we have fighter planes, and boats!' and the next 'we're in space, use OT, lasers, blablabla', at least not in what should be a brief description / overview of the faction.
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Re: BrikWiki

Postby Quantumsurfer » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:22 pm

Bragallot wrote:I don't want the first person to write 'we have fighter planes, and boats!' and the next 'we're in space, use OT, lasers, blablabla', at least not in what should be a brief description / overview of the faction.


This was my general point. If one does use descriptive words, they should be highly thematic and broad. Genre covers that nicely, for the most part. Given your two examples, Modern Military and Star Empire work well enough. Template doesn't need to change though, since "structure" is never called out as such for the viewer...its just in the code so you know what to put there. But a 1-3 word description works just as well there as does organization structure of the faction. Tek Level is included under that logical header so we can have both.

The only change I plan to make is to note in the existing TL article that "tek" is an outmoded way of approaching the subject and that "sophistication" is a clearer name as it includes all the powers at a faction's command.
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