No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Zahru II » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:20 pm

Grognard comes from Napoleonic era soldiers and was basically the denonym for vets/old soldiers to my understanding. It is also used to describe the Old School (tabletop) gamer afaik; the type that won't shut up about d&d 2e and the likes - in lego realms these are your classic space and 80s lego worshipping killjoys.

I'll leave the rest of that novella for the others to have fun with!
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Tzan » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:58 pm

According to the real grognards, D&D players are tree hugging hippies.

My first understanding of the g word is in relation to war gamers that play Avalon Hill board games or table top WWII or Napoleonic miniatures.

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by stubby » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:14 pm

Craigallot wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by your last paragraph. That we should be mindful of every little thing we do, because it 'might' have a negative effect somewhere? Where that is concerned, I think, it's impossible to predict everything anyway, and the responsibility always lies with the stupid people doing bad things. We get in touch with stuff that could influence us in a bad way on a daily basis, if you're a good person with strong morals, it won't affect you.
Well, yeah! Being mindful doesn't mean never do anything, it means think about the consequences and decide where your efforts are best spent. It's not about affecting people; "DEUS VULT" doesn't affect people with any kind of moral center either but it does signal to a bunch of people that this is the kind of place where they're not welcome. Lynching humor is the same kind of signal, so I'm (working on) removing it from rotation.

Which is not to say I'm making any hard rule against yellow vs peach warfare, I'm just saying we should be mindful when we're touching those nerves.
Craigallot wrote:That doesn't mean I think we don't have any sort of responsibility. I run my own Discord and just today told two separate people not to use the word 'sexy love gentlemen', or spout the phrase 'DEUS VULT'. This to me, are two examples of obviously harmful stuff that we should oppose. But censoring something because it MIGHT have a bad effect on SOMEONE, that goes too far.
The only censoring anybody's talking about is banning nazis. And that's not because they "MIGHT" have a bad effect, it's because they are the bad effect.
Craigallot wrote:Yellows fighting Peaches 'cos they're peaches though? Psh. Even with the interpretation you described, I don't think it's bad if the Yellows are the obvious villains.
Have they ever been the obvious villains? The only time I can think of was Collete's al-kind-of vignettes. I keep advising people they have to make the villains more obvious, but nobody ever listens.
Craigallot wrote:I don't remember who said it, but I believe it was John Cleese, and he said that the best jokes are usually the ones that make people slightly uncomfortable.
John Cleese hails from an age before memes were weaponized to incite online hate mobs, and I don't think he's caught up with the times. The world has changed and the consequences are different than they used to be, especially for everyone who isn't a retired celebrity.
Craigallot wrote:In Battle of the Goatse Bunker, we had a team, 'The Black Stereotypes', or something. A stupid person might think you put them there to actually make fun of black people, when it's actually the exaggeration of the stereotype itself, and the fact it exists that's been making fun of. Stupid people won't get that. You cannot account for stupidity.
I was pretty sure it was a mistake then, but I know it'd be a mistake now. If Goatse Bunker took place in 2018 I would not make the same choices. I'd still put in the giant Goatse though because offending people with Goatse never goes out of style! The stereotype squad is dehumanizing people who are already getting it bad enough in the age of Trump, while goatse dehumanizes no one. It's life-affirming and magical.
Craigallot wrote:I just remembered though, that LEGO is sexist by design, with inequal representation of male vs. female minifigs, stereotyped gender roles etc., which is difficult to overcome even if you try to buy more female minifig heads / torsos (the design of which may be sexist in itself).
You're pretty late to that joke, it's all over the rulebook already.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Tzan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:52 pm

stubby wrote: ... goatse dehumanizes no one. It's life-affirming and magical.
:D


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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by TheCraigfulOne » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:15 pm

List of longest written works ever published:

1. That one Super Smash Bros. fanfic.
2. Atlas Shrugged.
3. Whatever that post by Brag was about.

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by TheCraigfulOne » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:56 pm

This is off-topic, but I think it's pretty funny what RM's post count was when he got banned for being a Piltogg (1939).

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by stubby » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:01 pm

I guess the tl;dr is that everything you do is going to offend some people and not bother others, everything is going to hit somebody's sore point. That doesn't mean never do anything, but it also doesn't mean don't take any responsibility. Some people can afford that pain better than others, and being selective about where you do your damage doesn't make you a hypocrite.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Colette » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:43 pm

Natalya wrote:Retkon the ASE to be peach tolerant?
Holy shit.
Natalya wrote:Recently I disassembled my SHIP
Holier shit.
stubby wrote:
Craigallot wrote:Yellows fighting Peaches 'cos they're peaches though? Psh. Even with the interpretation you described, I don't think it's bad if the Yellows are the obvious villains.
Have they ever been the obvious villains? The only time I can think of was Collete's al-kind-of vignettes. I keep advising people they have to make the villains more obvious, but nobody ever listens.
The fun-hating Trattorians and their brutally exploitative corporations weren't obvious villains? I've clearly failed.

I'm super hesitant about censoring or even nudging people on brikwars content and factions, but at the same time I have a lot of sympathy for the points brought up. We don't live in the same world we did 10 years ago, for a variety of reasons. I have a reputation for being one of the edgiest writers here but even I set some limits for myself. No rape, no racism against brown figs. Space Nazis are a bunch of bumbling fools as likely to shoot themselves as peaches (and certainly not jews!) - Duerer did a great job with this - and OASIS is a bunch of fedora neckbeards.

In my experience running tons of chat battles, one reason peach racism is so popular is because it's so obvious from the figs themselves. People always complain that they don't want to look up whether faction A opposes alliance B or governmental system C or philosophy D. But you can cook up some Assyrians and bash them against some random clone troopers in a few minutes. Notice that peach racism gets resurrected as a war idea often when we have a wave of newbies. I think it probably appeals to that part of us that as a kid went "these red guys hate these blue guys, LET'S FIGHT", but a lot of us are older now and see the problems with it. Also peach racism was probably a better joke when the massive and powerful 45th Union was backing up the peaches and not lambs for the slaughter.

Also, I'm interested hearing people talk about viewing yellow vs. peaches as whites. I've always had a flexible view on what yellows represent, which is kind of Lego's intention I guess. Maybe it's because I'm non-white myself. Trattorians are a mix of what you would call Asians/Indians/whites, even though they're all yellow figures. I toyed with the idea of using darker toned figs for "Indian" characters, but I liked Lego's original ideal of universal, raceless yellow minifigs.

Personally, I've never really felt strongly about peach racism one way or another. It's another reason to fight but there are a lot of other reasons. For example the Trattorians are a meritocracy so of course they don't have racist policies. So they genocide and enslave other minifigs based on intelligence and education. They would be fine with IM peaches but attack them because they use magik. Etc.

Brag brought up an interesting point about other kinds of discrimination, although this isn't such an issue in brikwars (nobody has made an incel faction...thank the lord). I do think about gender balance in my stuff, at least among named characters if not random grunts. Hell, I even made an LGBT character once (the CFO of Goldman Sucks).

I've never really believed in reading too much into a user based on their factions. Yes a lot of Trattoria's founding principles are stuff I believe in, but I wanted to make the faction into something twisted and villainous so the end result is something I'd be horrified by if it existed in real life, and some of the rest is just satirizing my own beliefs and acknowledging how unrealistic they are. Some of my inspirations for Trattoria were dystopian literature like 1984 and Brave New World. Yes I support meritocracy, no I don't support enslaving people who don't do a science doctorate. Yes I support scientific research, no I don't think scientists should be worshipped above the law. Yes I support some form of free market capitalism, no I don't support corporations having the power to kill people and squat on medical patents.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Darkstorm » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:31 pm

Colette wrote:I wanted to make the faction into something twisted and villainous so the end result is something I'd be horrified by if it existed in real life, and some of the rest is just satirizing my own beliefs and acknowledging how unrealistic they are.
Isn't this about half of the point of brikwars, the other half being unabashed violence? Satire of irl topics and trends is something that I think has died out a little from times past, back during the Immortal conflict when factions were more satire on existing countries rather than completely made-up sci-fi factions like most new ones are today. I'm actually trying with my faction to try to go back to that satire again by showing the flaws of different societies and their actions.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by dilanski » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am

Colette wrote:
Natalya wrote:Recently I disassembled my SHIP
Holier shit.
Yeah, I actually teared up when I read this. That thing was like 10 years old, with two major revisions in its life. One of the most iconic mocs in all of Brikwars 23 year history (You feel old Mike?).
Colette wrote:Hell, I even made an LGBT character once (the CFO of Goldman Sucks).
Not to de-rail, but do you still have the same views on LGBT you held a few years back?

Just to be certain, I'm not going to earn a ban for wanting to systematically exterminate peaches, and showing this in a provocative manner? As I really don't like peaches. Years of Brikwars have instilled in me a genuine physical hatred of them that is likely comparable to what actual racists feel. I don't think that is going to change soon.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by stubby » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:42 pm

When I talk about toning down anti-peachism I'm mostly talking about in the "official" channels - the rulebook, the newsfeed, etc. I can't speak for anybody else, but for me bans are still more about stuff that targets people rather than stuff that targets minifigs. (Obviously some people can use stuff about minifigs as a way of targeting people, so I'm not saying go crazy with lego Piltogg worship or anything.)
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Natalya » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:35 pm

dilanski wrote:
Colette wrote:Hell, I even made an LGBT character once (the CFO of Goldman Sucks).
Not to de-rail, but do you still have the same views on LGBT you held a few years back?
Yes. This is why Colette is banned from the BW Chat.
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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by TheCraigfulOne » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:40 pm

Natalya wrote:
dilanski wrote:
Colette wrote:Hell, I even made an LGBT character once (the CFO of Goldman Sucks).
Not to de-rail, but do you still have the same views on LGBT you held a few years back?
Yes. This is why Colette is banned from the BW Chat.
Yikes, what are these views?

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by Tzan » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:00 pm

TheCraigfulOne wrote:
Natalya wrote:
dilanski wrote:
Colette wrote:Hell, I even made an LGBT character once (the CFO of Goldman Sucks).
Not to de-rail, but do you still have the same views on LGBT you held a few years back?
Yes. This is why Colette is banned from the BW Chat.
Yikes, what are these views?
Up skirt

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Re: No Tears for piltoggs: Nazis Get BANNED

Post by dilanski » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:28 am

TheCraigfulOne wrote:
Natalya wrote:
dilanski wrote:
Colette wrote:Hell, I even made an LGBT character once (the CFO of Goldman Sucks).
Not to de-rail, but do you still have the same views on LGBT you held a few years back?
Yes. This is why Colette is banned from the BW Chat.
Yikes, what are these views?
IIRC it was stuff along the lines of not supporting the lifestyle, although not outwardly aggressive. Can still understand why he'd get banned for them.
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