Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

Moderators: Pwnerade, IVhorseman

User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss
Contact:

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by IVhorseman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:06 am

I see no reason why gunners can't use melee weapons.

User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss
Contact:

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by IVhorseman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:54 pm

I think your smoke rules cover a cloaking system just fine as-is. No need to reinvent the wheel. A scanner sounds pretty scenario-specific, so I'd just take out die rolls entirely and say that a scanner-equipped unit can see all cloaked units if they have line-of-sight.

As for teleporting, I'm not sure. Technically you could just teleport a unit to the surface of the sun and get the same effect, so it may be irrelevant flavor-wise. Might just be best to rule that a teleporter only has a limited range regardless of tek levels, and that the teleported units must arrive SOMEWHERE in the play area. If that's over a pungee pit or a pool of lava, that's up to you.

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by stubby » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:11 pm

Voin wrote:So when I teleport a unit (especially an unwilling one from the enemy side), there's nothing saying that once I beam them out, I have to beam them back in anywhere, is there? I can just "oops", let the stream of particles be lost somewhere in the æther, or "accidentally" clear the data cache on the teleporter console...
This seems game-breaking, I would rule against it. Teleported matter has to go somewhere. I would probably also think of some pseudo-science explanation for how anyone who didn't want to be teleported willingly can disrupt a teleportation lock by just holding their arms out or something.
IVhorseman wrote:As for teleporting, I'm not sure. Technically you could just teleport a unit to the surface of the sun and get the same effect, so it may be irrelevant flavor-wise.
Yes, but if you targeted the sun on a regular skill roll then your Missed By number would be effectively infinite, so your enemy could then Koincidentally place the unit anywhere he wanted to.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by stubby » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:41 pm

Hmm. For game balance, I'd probably start by basing it on an existing weapon - "this has regular rifle stats except the damage it does is Temporal Damage" - but it seems like that wouldn't differentiate it enough. I guess the real balancing would come in how you handled the "slow to affect a target" part. Grinding damage to the Move stat before switching to real damage maybe? Does it have to erase the whole object or can it do Component damage erasing?

Grinding Damage can destroy a thing, I should probably make that more clear in the text.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss
Contact:

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by IVhorseman » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:50 pm

stubby wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:As for teleporting, I'm not sure. Technically you could just teleport a unit to the surface of the sun and get the same effect, so it may be irrelevant flavor-wise.
Yes, but if you targeted the sun on a regular skill roll then your Missed By number would be effectively infinite, so your enemy could then Koincidentally place the unit anywhere he wanted to.
Counterpoint: The sun gives you a roughly infinite size bonus as well, so the attack would more likely than not be successful (assuming teleportation drop-off is handled by skill roll and not hand-waved away as an automatically successful action).



I remember the Chrononaut, but I'm gonna go ahead and decide that the game effect you're trying to replicate is better suited for a real-time strategy game like Red Alert 2, as opposed to a turn-based game where you actually have to keep track of things manually like Brikwars. Not being one to simply deny someone's attempts to come up with something creative however, I'll at least attempt to help out.

Okay so the fact that they made things disappear temporally when more chrononauts are together is a sign to me that it's simply a function of damage. Even firing a 1d6 beam at a standard minifig will only actually poof him about half of the time, and i suppose heavier armor has more tachyons or whatever bullshit made-up particle you're using to control the time continuum.

As far as C&C rules went (from what I remember), a unit being displaced suffers no ill-effects until it is fully chronologized other than being immobilized. Something that immediately immobilizes regardless of whether the attack was successful is a little bit broken for Brikwars purposes, but the chrono-displacement isn't.

As suggested earlier, I too would simply just make something with rifle (or any other appropriately sized gun) stats that does temporal damage instead of actual damage. Then when "killed," the unit is simply removed from time until the device is either broken or a user manually releases the object from the time bubble or whatever.

User avatar
loafofcheese
Cannon Fodder
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:44 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by loafofcheese » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:43 pm

Voin wrote:Can Mechaniks make a pile of briks into explosives?
Yes but only each brik treated as an independent size 1?
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss
Contact:

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by IVhorseman » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:41 am

Yes, but your opponent(s) get(s) to beat the shit out of you for being such a cheeky bastard.

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by stubby » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:10 pm

IVhorseman wrote:Counterpoint: The sun gives you a roughly infinite size bonus as well, so the attack would more likely than not be successful (assuming teleportation drop-off is handled by skill roll and not hand-waved away as an automatically successful action).
The size of the sun is around 1% of the distance to the sun. So for every +1 of Size Bonus, you'd be looking at -200 Out Of Range penalty. You're going to miss that shot.
Voin wrote:Can Mechaniks make a pile of briks into explosives?
7.3 Field Construction wrote:The difficulty with Field-Constructed weapons is in determining what counts as a properly-constructed weapon and what doesn't, since this is entirely up to the building standards of the players. In some groups, for instance, a single 1x10 brick makes a very acceptable Size 3 laser cannon, by sole virtue of being mounted on the front of a death buggy; in more serious groups it would be laughed right off the table. Here are some factors to consider when a Field-Constructed weapon is proposed:
  • Appropriate Parts
    Is the new weapon built out of the blown-up pieces of a similar weapon that got destroyed earlier? If so, then it's almost certainly acceptable. Mechanix have a much easier time building devices out of parts that were actually intended for the purpose.

    Context Consistency
    Does the weapon look roughly as convincing as other weapons on the table, or does it look embarrassing by comparison? If the other players are fielding intricately customized models that they've slaved over for hours, they have the right to be more judgmental than if they slapped a bunch of rainbow crates together five minutes before the game. If the Mechanik's player can spot any enemies who are fielding weapons of similar quality or worse, then he's immune to criticism.

    Player Hardassness
    How much of a hardass do you want to be? Has the Mechanik's player been a pain in the ass over the details of every Heroic Feat and What I Say Goes Roll, or has he been willing to let things slide? Either way, now's the time to show your appreciation.


If players can't quickly agree on whether or not a given Field-Constructed weapon or device is acceptable enough to allow, put it to a What I Say Goes Roll and move on.
This would be a WISG requiring some Macguyver-style explanation (or Geordie la Forge, depending on genre). If you pulled a fuel tank out of an engine block and explosive'd it, I'd be all in favor. If you pull rubble from a stone wall, I hope the other players' WISG calls are appropriately punishing ("you succeed in turning non-explosive materials explosive, but you miss and cause your own butt to explode instead").
Voin wrote:"full-round Action" for performing Ker-Triage and ambigous for assisting. Which is correct?
Full-round is more realistic, but standard action is obviously a lot more playable. I'll probably change it to standard action all around.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
Zupponn
if you give us money we will give you product
if you give us money we will give you product
Posts: 5564
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:15 pm
Location: Back in Wisconsin!

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by Zupponn » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:26 pm

Voin's son is named Vlimli.
Image

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by stubby » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:29 pm

Voin wrote:This can apply to most any celestial body of note. Their size may be immense, but the distance between them is even more astronomical.
Image
Voin wrote:But speaking of "realistic", would troops killed by massive damage even leave much to put back together? I can see a dude downed by a bullet being patched up by a Medik and sent out to give his life once more for his country, but what about the poor bastard standing at the center of a 5d10 explosion? Wouldn't he have gotten disintegrated into a fine red mist? Even in the world of Brikwars, it would heavily stretch suspension of disbelief if he just took a couple of aspirin and walked it off.

In my group, we were considering imposing a penalty to Ker-Triage checks equal to the damage dealt over that which it took to kill the unit in the first place, but I'm thinking that the bookkeeping involved might make it more trouble than it's worth.
The way to handle this is going to be to impose dismemberment at the time of damage in games with Mediks. Then it'll be easy to tell whether a guy is "mostly dead" or "20x dead" without having to do any bookkeeping. I haven't come up with the best way yet to decide who gets ripped apart at time of death and who doesn't.
Voin wrote:* Another question about Medix: when they revive a unit with Ker-Triage, is that unit then immediately capable of taking a turn (move + action)? What if the fallen minifig was just killed earlier that very turn (stepped on a landmine, walked within range of an enemy's held action, etc.)?
Oh, I just always had it so that they stand up and possibly arm themselves, but no immediate action otherwise. I should probably make a ruling though, especially about whether they can make response actions before their next turn begins.
Voin wrote:* A question about explosives: specifically remote-detonated ones.

My friend argued that tossing a satchel charge was one action and pressing the button to remote-detonate it was simply a -1" Move.
Operating a simple latch, lever, button, or door -1" Move
I argued that throwing it would be 1 action, and then detonating it (since that constituted an attack) would be another action altogether. Otherwise, every pull of a gun's trigger could be considered "operating a lever".

Which of us was right?
Actions are for anything you have to focus special attention on for aiming or timing. If he's being a Cool Guy and hitting the button as he walks away from the explosion, then it's a Quick Action, not even a -1". If it's an IED and he's trying to set it off at the exact moment a humvee is driving past it, then getting the timing right is an Action (with Use rating subject to debate).
* Loading launchers: Standard Action, or Move Action?
Loading ammo or other random objects into launchers is a Move Action. It's the Automatic Weapons that take an Action to Reload.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by stubby » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Voin wrote:Hmmm... maybe those suffering an acute case of death by over(s)kill don't qualify for revival? If an attack deals so much damage to Random Dude A that it rips right through him and wastes Random Dude B standing behind him, Random Dude A's parts are probably gonna be contributing to the battlefield scenery...
Sure, but if I'm going to write an actual rule then it needs a specific delineation. X points of damage result in disfigurement, X-1 don't. Most likely it'll just be Damage > Armor kills, Damage > Armor x2 dismembers, in any game where dismemberment matters due to the presence of Mediks.


Voin wrote:So the G.I. tosses his remote-detonated satchel charge onto the barrels of the turret to keep it out of my hands, and, since he had at that point spent his [house ruled] move-or-action, a nearby Medik went up and pressed the button. It may have been a humble size-1 explosive, but he rolled two 10s in a row, and then an 8, which was more than sufficient to not only destroy the AA-gun (which rolled poorly for armor) - the part of it that mattered, anyway- but also kill off poor grenadier Boris, who had survived a Redshirting just moments prior.
I swear the same thing just happened to me in a game last night. I responded with a whole pile of size-1 missiles.

In this case it sounds like a free move. The satchel already landed wherever it landed, there's no issue of timing the button press, the Medik takes the control and activates. No Action cost, no Move cost.
Voin wrote:
Loading ammo or other random objects into launchers is a Move Action. It's the Automatic Weapons that take an Action to Reload.
So... does it take up any inches worth of move, or is it a "quick move action"?

Also, you may want to clarify that in the rules, because I can see that being a source of confusion. Even some of the stuff in IVhorseman's excellent armory material seems to be written under the assumption that loading a launcher is a standard action.
Some of the stuff IVhorseman wrote is from back when loading a launcher still cost an Action. It's changed a couple of times. Right now the only cost to load a Launcher is the cost of picking up the payload and taking it to wherever it gets loaded. Which could be a lot of work if you're picking up boulders to load into a catapult, or not much work at all if you've already got the stinger missile in one hand and the rocket launcher in the other.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss
Contact:

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by IVhorseman » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:48 am

stubby wrote:Some of the stuff IVhorseman wrote is from back when loading a launcher still cost an Action.
Yeah, this is the first I've heard of that.

User avatar
Gungnir
Jaw-Jaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:01 am

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by Gungnir » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:29 pm

Voin wrote:Can an explosive be designated "unarmed" until a unit "primes" it (imagine something like C-4), or are they all essentially just big jars of nitroglycerin that will go off in the hands of the side fielding them if they so much as take 1 point of damage?
Yes.
BrikThulhu eats 1d6 minifigs each turn.

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by stubby » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:25 pm

Voin wrote:Can an explosive be designated "unarmed" until a unit "primes" it (imagine something like C-4), or are they all essentially just big jars of nitroglycerin that will go off in the hands of the side fielding them if they so much as take 1 point of damage?
This has been a matter of debate for a long time. The jury is still out.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
loafofcheese
Cannon Fodder
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:44 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Post by loafofcheese » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:47 pm

stubby wrote:
Voin wrote:Can an explosive be designated "unarmed" until a unit "primes" it (imagine something like C-4), or are they all essentially just big jars of nitroglycerin that will go off in the hands of the side fielding them if they so much as take 1 point of damage?
This has been a matter of debate for a long time. The jury is still out.
jars of nitroglycerin would be more fun, and lead to more explosions.
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Post Reply