Me catching up on some rule issues

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Killer Karetsu
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Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by Killer Karetsu » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:04 pm

*slowly rises from the adult responsibilities -filled dark ages grave I have dug for myself*

First of all, I hope all of you old farts are doing well. 8) And hello to all the new blood hopefully scurrying about these forums. I have been occasionally lurking for these past ?six? years. Lately that activity has been intensifying. All sorts of interesting stuff has been happening here during my absence judging from the glimpses I have seen and I'm glad to see Brikwars is alive and kicking. Especially regarding the rulebook! The 2010 rules seem to be quite complete and the draft rules have some very interesting chapters.

So, I ain't promising that I'm back permanently. But! I have been playing Brikwars from time to time and lately in increasing amounts. I'm even going to post a little battle report soon. Playing with all these new rules and fairly new friends in my new hometown has forced me to take more looks into the rules department as I was so used to fudging and home rules between me and Finnstriker. So I have some questions relating rules issues, and I'm making these thread so that I may post some new questions that may pop up. I have taken a look at the threads here and the massive and tedious newbie questions -epic but I got bored and decided to be direct.

1. One of the most universal rules of Brikwars regard the d6 rolls of 6 and 1. 1 means that

"If the die in a roll comes up ‘1,’ then the roll is an automatic Critical Failure, regardless of other modifiers. Whatever task a player or unit was attempting fails completely, no matter how easy it might have been."

This is a very old rule I am familiar with of course. The thing is, I have never applied this rule to sprinting. In fact, it isn't exactly stated in the sprinting rules section what a roll of 1 does while attempting to sprint. What is stated, is that it is stated in a smaller text, that:

"By tradition, if a series of Critical Successes in a Sprint roll suddenly ends with a roll of one, it's a special kind of Critical Failure - the unit is unable to stop itself, and must run the full distance allowed by the extra Bonus Dice, even if he runs into a wall or off the table."

So I guess the universal rule of rolling a one applies to sprinting and is kind of hinted in the small text, although it isn't directly addressed. So, rolling a one when a minifig is trying to sprint means that the moves no inches at all, or just fails the sprinting and moves the normal five inches? This is an issue as a guy I have played with follows the rule that a one is a failure and rules that the minifig doesn't move at all that turn if he tries to sprint but rolls an one, falling over or whatever. I think this rule is stupid, as it gives a 1/6 chance of just wasting a turn on your minifig when he MOST LIKELY (at least if he is commanded by me) is just trying to get into the action. Of course, it is only 1/6 and you could just roll for a big amount of troops. But that would just in the worst case waste your whole turn on a bunch of minifigs. This leads me to not sprint at all as it is so luck - based.

Of course, this all could be fudged. I personally think that a compromise could be that the minifig just moves the normal allowance. My personal opinion is of course that 1 is just 1 inch more, not a critical failure. This goes of course to the "what i say goes" -category but I wouldn't want to bother doing that all the time and these kind of things kinda disagreements give an "hostile feel" to the whole thing. What I came to ask is your opinion on this subject. To me this quite an important matter as I almost always play medieval factions who rely on getting close to the enemy fast, cavarly and infantry alike. My opponents are usually focused on ranged combat. If sprinting is so unreliable then my charges kinda die down as it is risky to try them. Charging into pike-musket formations is risky enough without the chance of sixth of my soldiers just staying put to say "lol I'm feeling lazy" I just feel it is quite lame that when my minifigs are charging to frenzied close combat and then they fail because I wanted them to run faster. Maybe funny in some regard, but ultimately lame in my opinion. What's yours?

2.This is a series of smaller questions. If I have a battlemage with supernatural dice and he wants to bless a giant with is giant bow. I know that blessing gives an additional die to the action and you get to choose the better result, if you bless the giant holding the bow. Can you bless with multiple dice, for example giving the giant additional 2 dice for the firing action, and he gets to choose the best out of his own d6 and the two bless d6s? Is the bless dice amount unlimited? Can you bless the bow's damage AND the giants skill on the same turn if you can reach them with the battlemage and have enough dice? Is a d4, d8 or a d10 usable for blessing as the have their connections to certain effects (fire, arcs and explosion etc) or is a d6 only usable? I have to admit, my knowledge is weakest when it comes to supernatural dice as they are a very new thing for me.

3.Some questions relating lauchers. If giant bows or ballistas classified as launchers fire weapons (spears) they deal the cc damage of the weapons size. So a size 6 ballista launcher could fire a max size 3 spear into enemy ranks. It deals 3d6 damage if it hits, I get that. But does it get momentum damage? I guess not as momentum and such is related to someone or something holding the weapon while moving. But I was just wondering. Additionally, could the spear be classified as custom weapon that does 3d6 armour piercing damage? I personally see no reason why.

...If I launch a size 3 giant from the launcher holding a size 3 spear to hit something, does the spear THEN get extra damage if it makes an impact? :twisted: And does the hit of the launcher only apply to the giant hitting the target and the giant has to make a separate attack to whatever it reaches during the flight?

I would appreciate your thoughts relating these issues puzzling me. Thanks in advance!
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Re: Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by Killer Karetsu » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:23 pm

Here are some further questions!

In the weaponry chapter it is stated that "hand held weapons" used by creations are subjected to the same limitations as minifig weapons. As in, it is determined by comparing the size of the weapon to the size of the creation to which category the weapon falls when used by that creation. Short, bastard and long = equilavent to hand weapon, heavy weapon and two handed weapon. There is a chart which states that a short means "use as hand weapon" and so on. It is clear by looking at the chart that this places limitations to the weapon usage similar to minifig weapons. But! Does the "use as x" mean that the actual USE RATING of the weapon is, in the hands of a large-enough creation, similar to minifig weapon uses?

For example, if I have a size 4 regular knights kingdom giant using a size 3-4 (up to creation size) melee weapon, that the use rating of that weapon is 2 in the hands of the giant (3-4 size weapon is categorized as a short weapon if used by the giant and therefore "use as hand weapon") instead of the standard off the chart use rating 4/5 depending if the weapon is size 3 or 4.

I suspect that this is not the case. But should it be? Of course, it would make hitting smaller targets by hand-held objects critically easier. The giant would be quite accurate with a small enough weapon, but still devastating against minifigs. This may be unbalanced. On the other hand, I think it would maybe be better this way. A big melee weapon quickly becomes way too unwieldy to hit most targets and usually this means that giants only fight against other big targets. This is implied in the start of the weaponry section where it is said that you "have to choose the right tool for the job". But is there any reason that a weapon becomes suddenly way unwieldier because it is big (of course) and used by a big guy (not anymore i guess?)? It isn't slower and easier to dodge, I think. If you get past the cave troll stereotype. To me it feels that a bigger weapon would be actually more likely to hit something than a smaller weapon used by a big guy. The only reason I see is because the target is so small.

It is easier to me to hit a person than it is to hit a cult or in stark comparison, an ant. But it isn't hard because of the weapon I use - well, actually, the smaller my weapon, the harder it is to score a hit, unless we are talking of way too unwieldy objects. I guess I'm saying that in my opinion it shouldn't be easier for a giant to hit a minifig with a size 1 spear compared to a size 3 sword. If anything, the sword covers a larger area with a swing than the smaller spear. Think of the spear as a fork when compared to humans and the size 3 sword as a shortsword or whatever that size. I think that if the same limitations of minfig weapon rules apply to hand-held big creation weapons it would be better to also include the use rating here. To me it would make sense at least. This is (could be? I'm not sure) balanced by putting penalties to hitting smaller targets. This could mean that the use rating would stay the same anyway or maybe worse for the weapons (if there is +1 to use for every size smaller then a size 3 or 4 weapon of a giant size 4 would have a use 5 against minifigs but use 2 against targets its own size) when targeted against minifigs but it would mean their accuracy would be quite normal against others their size. Why is it easierfor a minifig to hit a minifig with a minifig sized weapon than it is for a giant to hit a giant with a giant-sized weapon?

It could be that these issues are solved in the rules somewhere and I just haven't noticed. And maybe the use rating thing is already like this as I kinda read it to be implied?

EDIT:

I keep coming up with these questions faster than anyone has time to answer, oh well :D

A question concerning blastguns of different sizes: it is stated in the rules that a minifig who takes any damage from a blastgun (of any size) shot is knocked back (only) 1 inch but not disrupted. Wouldn't it be better if this scales up with weapon size? Either the knockback gets bigger by one inch/weapon size inch, or that starting from size number two the fig is also disrupted? OR both? I am most likely going to fudge this in my own games by giving the extra knockback per weapon size + disruption starting from size 2 blastguns. Thoughts?
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Re: Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by stubby » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:54 am

Holy shit! Killer Karetsu, long time no see! I thought the demon curse of Tikoskum had gotten you.
Killer Karetsu wrote:So I guess the universal rule of rolling a one applies to sprinting and is kind of hinted in the small text, although it isn't directly addressed. So, rolling a one when a minifig is trying to sprint means that the moves no inches at all, or just fails the sprinting and moves the normal five inches?
Critfails are always a matter for case-by-case interpretation. I normally let everyone fall on their faces, but I can find exceptions:
  • Rainbow War II: Jellybean Apocalypse: Grail War, Turn 3 wrote:Image

    The Riders of Rayho try to charge forward, but the two catapult horses critfail their Sprint roll and get their spears tangled up, halting their advance.
You can improve your odds by putting an Officer in your group, which doesn't solve the problem but decreases the chance to 1/8 rather than 1/6. If it's really impacting the game, I might try suggesting that if it's a group of minifigs sprinting, then a critfail reduces them to Half Speed rather than disrupting them completely, and see what your opponents think. A single minifig running by himself should still have that risk of falling on his face though, because it's funny.

Killer Karetsu wrote:2.This is a series of smaller questions. If I have a battlemage with supernatural dice and he wants to bless a giant with is giant bow. I know that blessing gives an additional die to the action and you get to choose the better result, if you bless the giant holding the bow. Can you bless with multiple dice, for example giving the giant additional 2 dice for the firing action, and he gets to choose the best out of his own d6 and the two bless d6s? Is the bless dice amount unlimited?
Yes: you would roll three d6es and choose the best one. (You wouldn't choose the best between the d6 and the 2d6, because skill rolls must always be a single die.)

Killer Karetsu wrote:Can you bless the bow's damage AND the giants skill on the same turn if you can reach them with the battlemage and have enough dice? Is a d4, d8 or a d10 usable for blessing as the have their connections to certain effects (fire, arcs and explosion etc) or is a d6 only usable?
You can use as many dice of whatever type you want, as long as it fits in their Supernatural Cliche. All of that stuff would fit in a battlemage's cliche in general, but it's possible that you gave some of the individual dice a different cliche.

Killer Karetsu wrote:3.Some questions relating launchers. If giant bows or ballistas classified as launchers fire weapons (spears) they deal the cc damage of the weapons size. So a size 6 ballista launcher could fire a max size 3 spear into enemy ranks. It deals 3d6 damage if it hits, I get that. But does it get momentum damage? I guess not as momentum and such is related to someone or something holding the weapon while moving.
Momentum damage comes from the extra mass of the person holding the weapon, effectively making it a bigger weapon. A size 3 spear is kind of like a regular spear with +2d6 momentum damage from its larger handle.

Killer Karetsu wrote:But I was just wondering. Additionally, could the spear be classified as custom weapon that does 3d6 armour piercing damage? I personally see no reason why.
Absolutely. I normally do this for all spears of any size.

Killer Karetsu wrote:...If I launch a size 3 giant from the launcher holding a size 3 spear to hit something, does the spear THEN get extra damage if it makes an impact? :twisted: And does the hit of the launcher only apply to the giant hitting the target and the giant has to make a separate attack to whatever it reaches during the flight?
Yes to everything, as long as he travels 12" to build up 3 dice of momentum.

Killer Karetsu wrote:There is a chart which states that a short means "use as hand weapon" and so on. It is clear by looking at the chart that this places limitations to the weapon usage similar to minifig weapons. But! Does the "use as x" mean that the actual USE RATING of the weapon is, in the hands of a large-enough creation, similar to minifig weapon uses?
No, they still use their standard use rating.

Killer Karetsu wrote:For example, if I have a size 4 regular knights kingdom giant using a size 3-4 (up to creation size) melee weapon, that the use rating of that weapon is 2 in the hands of the giant (3-4 size weapon is categorized as a short weapon if used by the giant and therefore "use as hand weapon") instead of the standard off the chart use rating 4/5 depending if the weapon is size 3 or 4.
It's 4 or 5. Which works back down to 2 or 3 again if he's fighting another giant, thanks to the +2 target size bonus, so it stays pretty similar as long as he's fighting his own kind.

Killer Karetsu wrote:It is easier to me to hit a person than it is to hit a cat or in stark comparison, an ant. But it isn't hard because of the weapon I use - well, actually, the smaller my weapon, the harder it is to score a hit, unless we are talking of way too unwieldy objects.
I disagree. I hate cats, but my family insisted on getting one anyway, so I spend a lot of time fighting it. If I try to hit the cat with something large I just end up knocking furniture over.

For your more extreme example, even though I'm very large, I'd have a much much easier time hitting that ant with a fork or a pencil eraser than with a broadsword.

Killer Karetsu wrote:A question concerning blastguns of different sizes: it is stated in the rules that a minifig who takes any damage from a blastgun (of any size) shot is knocked back (only) 1 inch but not disrupted. Wouldn't it be better if this scales up with weapon size?
That rule is only for ShotGuns, which are size 1" blastguns for minifigs. All weapons of size 2" or greater do knockback to minifigs, but the shotgun is the only non-Explosive weapon that knocks them back at size 1".
  • 8.1: Weapon Size wrote:KnockBack
    All targets affected by an Explosion receive an inch of KnockBack for every die of Explosion Damage they receive.

    Non-Explosive weapons can also cause KnockBack if they strike targets smaller than themselves. A target is Knocked Back one inch for every inch of difference between the Weapon Size and the target's Effective Size, with the usual potential for being Disrupted as a result.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

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Re: Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by Killer Karetsu » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:59 am

stubby wrote:Holy shit! Killer Karetsu, long time no see! I thought the demon curse of Tikoskum had gotten you.
Haha :) Tell me about it! Actually, I think the demon curse has sadly grown weaker and weaker from the lack of construction brik mayhem and due to an evergrowing amount of boring adult responsibilities. :wink: I really appreciate you addressing all of my questions, as they were quite text-heavy :oops:
stubby wrote:You can improve your odds by putting an Officer in your group, which doesn't solve the problem but decreases the chance to 1/8 rather than 1/6. If it's really impacting the game, I might try suggesting that if it's a group of minifigs sprinting, then a critfail reduces them to Half Speed rather than disrupting them completely, and see what your opponents think. A single minifig running by himself should still have that risk of falling on his face though, because it's funny.
Hmm. That sounds reasonable and the half speed would, if agreed by other players, really solve the issue for me. That officer bonus is a good point. It would give that certain risk-reward balance without halting my entire battleline in the case of a critfail, which would just delay the game. But especially after considering your example from the Jellybean apocalypse I totally agree that in case of invidual or small scale sprint rolls it is also beneficial and entertaining to take critfails into account fully. I have been doing this actually in the past and part of the fun is inventing situation-related fails, like the spears getting stuck together. I guess I have forgot about the spirit of brikwars a bit too much.
stubby wrote:You can use as many dice of whatever type you want, as long as it fits in their Supernatural Cliche. All of that stuff would fit in a battlemage's cliche in general, but it's possible that you gave some of the individual dice a different cliche.
Cool! So, do you mean that a powerful battlemage could have for example 3 "battlemage cliche" dice but then have 2d6 reserved for necromancy purposes, representing his forbidden studies at the restricted side of the library?
stubby wrote:Momentum damage comes from the extra mass of the person holding the weapon, effectively making it a bigger weapon. A size 3 spear is kind of like a regular spear with +2d6 momentum damage from its larger handle.
That is a satisfying way to think about it!
stubby wrote:It's 4 or 5. Which works back down to 2 or 3 again if he's fighting another giant, thanks to the +2 target size bonus, so it stays pretty similar as long as he's fighting his own kind.
and
stubby wrote:I disagree. I hate cats, but my family insisted on getting one anyway, so I spend a lot of time fighting it. If I try to hit the cat with something large I just end up knocking furniture over. For your more extreme example, even though I'm very large, I'd have a much much easier time hitting that ant with a fork or a pencil eraser than with a broadsword.
I do get your point. This whole thing is resolved for me with that notion that size bonus is allowed for all targets. I guess I remembered some old house rules, which restricted size bonus for hitting only if you were smaller than the target, which would result the big boys missing each other for many turns in a row. Which was funny, but quite boring. Thank you for pointing that out!
stubby wrote:That rule is only for ShotGuns, which are size 1" blastguns for minifigs. All weapons of size 2" or greater do knockback to minifigs, but the shotgun is the only non-Explosive weapon that knocks them back at size 1".
  • 8.1: Weapon Size wrote:KnockBack
    All targets affected by an Explosion receive an inch of KnockBack for every die of Explosion Damage they receive.

    Non-Explosive weapons can also cause KnockBack if they strike targets smaller than themselves. A target is Knocked Back one inch for every inch of difference between the Weapon Size and the target's Effective Size, with the usual potential for being Disrupted as a result.
Oh!!! I had forgot, and now browsing through the rules, completely missed that notion. No further questions about that topic!

I may have some follow up questions about other issues later. If so, I will post them here. Thanks again. I wish you luck in your feline feud.

EDIT: Btw stubby, I'm sorry for ghosting out on that forum battle of yours. I suddenly remembered me calling dibs on the Rayho faction.
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Re: Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by Falk » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:45 pm

Well you're in luck because we still haven't gotten the next turn. Mike's been busy.

Good to see you back tho.
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Re: Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by Craigallot » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:45 pm

The way I would resolve that squad sprinting is probably by making the minifig who critfailed fall and the rest sprint on obliviously without him. Maybe the little bugger planned it all along so he wouldn't be in the front rank, the damned coward. :fist:

I suppose you could also use up your move inches (so long as you're moving straight forward) and only then make the sprint roll. Not sure if that's legal anymore though, I rarely use squads (even though my medieval armies are kinda built around the principle of having them fight in squads).

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Re: Me catching up on some rule issues

Post by stubby » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:05 pm

Craigallot wrote:The way I would resolve that squad sprinting is probably by making the minifig who critfailed fall and the rest sprint on obliviously without him. Maybe the little bugger planned it all along so he wouldn't be in the front rank, the damned coward. :fist:
Squads make one roll with the die of the lowest-skilled squad member. That way they all move together - they succeed or fail by the same amount.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

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