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Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:48 pm
by L-Man
I'm not sure if there was a similar topic before, but... in Now you can all stop asking about magick there's this sentence:
stubby wrote:Resurrection, retroactive, and lasting effects are no longer possible in the updated system, although dead bodies can be animated on a turn-by-turn basis.
I was thinking... what if you could temporarily "lend" a SN die to a summoned creature, giving it the abilities based on the type of die you give up in the process?

Example:
Rover the Red, firemage with supernatural dice 1d4 + 1d8 summons a Fire Sprite.
He chooses to spend his d4 in the process, giving it the following stats:
1 HP (number of dice used)
1d4 skill (the type of die used)
1d4 dmg (the type of die used)
5" move (like standard minifig)
4 armor (like standard minifig)

Right now, Rover has only his d8 left to perform his magick, but he will get the d4 back, once the firesprite is unsummoned or killed.
He could also use both his dice to summon a mightier Fire Elemental, which would have 2 HP (cause 2 dice were used) and either his skill, dmg, move or armor boosted by 1d8.

Of course, the idea needs tweaking, and possibly some additional effects should be added to different SN die types. Tell me what you think, would ya?

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:53 pm
by bann154
i would say instead of having 5" move and 4 armor they should have d4 move and armor to keep it consistent and make it work with other SN dice summoned creatures.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:14 pm
by L-Man
bann154 wrote:i would say instead of having 5" move and 4 armor they should have d4 move and armor to keep it consistent and make it work with other SN dice summoned creatures.
I thought about it too, but I think that will involve too much rolling and slow the game a lot. I say, maybe keep the armor rolls, but movement could be a flat value (unless boosted with other dice of course).

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:35 pm
by bann154
L-Man wrote:
bann154 wrote:i would say instead of having 5" move and 4 armor they should have d4 move and armor to keep it consistent and make it work with other SN dice summoned creatures.
I thought about it too, but I think that will involve too much rolling and slow the game a lot. I say, maybe keep the armor rolls, but movement could be a flat value (unless boosted with other dice of course).
That is true but how would one determine the move of larger elemental's say a wind elemental (d8) or a chaos elemental (d12)?

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:54 pm
by L-Man
IMO, that's why you should use multiple dice for one creature.
Because you could make a simple, 1-die wind spirit:
1 HP, 1d8 skill, dmg & armor, 5" move

But it won't be as powerful as a 3-die elemental with boosted move and dmg:
3 HP, 1d8 skill & armor, 2d8 dmg, 1d8+5" move

Alternatively, different SN types could give different bonuses, just like they do when you use them normally.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:00 pm
by bann154
L-Man wrote:IMO, that's why you should use multiple dice for one creature.
Because you could make a simple, 1-die wind spirit:
1 HP, 1d8 skill, dmg & armor, 5" move

But it won't be as powerful as a 3-die elemental with boosted move and dmg:
3 HP, 1d8 skill & armor, 2d8 dmg, 1d8+5" move

Alternatively, different SN types could give different bonuses, just like they do when you use them normally.
Thats not a bad idea this i would really like to see

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:00 pm
by RedRover
I appreciate you using me as an example

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:06 pm
by stubby
L-Man wrote:
stubby wrote:Resurrection, retroactive, and lasting effects are no longer possible in the updated system, although dead bodies can be animated on a turn-by-turn basis.
I was thinking... what if you could temporarily "lend" a SN die to a summoned creature, giving it the abilities based on the type of die you give up in the process?
That quote was from 2011 or earlier; lasting effects are back in, under the section titled (appropriately enough) Lasting Effects.

I don't have any specific rules for summoning, but you can animate objects with Lasting Effects. In that case, everything has to be bought with dice - Skill, Move, Damage, whatever else. The object keeps whatever Armor it had before it was animated, but that's still a good handful of dice to get a single summon-like effect.

You shouldn't be able to get a creature summon out of a single die, but if you did, I would recommend that you have to burn the die permanently to make up for it. You're releasing that SN power for good in order to turn it into an independent unit on the battlefield. In any case, the summoned creature could not have a greater CP value than the CP cost of the SN die. A SN d4 costs 3CP, so you could get a 3CP creature out of it - say, a Flaming Vermin, or an unarmed and Incompetent minifig with Move 4".

It'd be funny to give an animated creature a single die and make it have to choose each turn whether to use it for Movement or Skill or anything else. If you were feeling generous with your Fudge, you could have it roll the die at the beginning of the turn and divide the points between stats.

I don't mind having to roll a bunch of dice for the creature's stats every turn, since supernatural dice are expensive and rare. You're not going to be fielding an army of a dozen summoned creatures unless things have gotten completely out of control.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:20 am
by L-Man
stubby wrote:
L-Man wrote:
stubby wrote:Resurrection, retroactive, and lasting effects are no longer possible in the updated system, although dead bodies can be animated on a turn-by-turn basis.
I was thinking... what if you could temporarily "lend" a SN die to a summoned creature, giving it the abilities based on the type of die you give up in the process?
That quote was from 2011 or earlier; lasting effects are back in, under the section titled (appropriately enough) Lasting Effects.
Right, I must have somehow missed it -_-

The CP variant is also apealing. So, when summoning a (d4+d8) fire elemental, Rover (sup) would have 8 CP to spend on its stats, am I right?
But again, I was looking for "quick & dirty" way of making up stats for summons, without the need to calculate CP costs.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:28 am
by L-Man
Some new thoughts:
1) What if we kept this:
L-Man wrote:1 HP (number of dice used)
1d4 skill (the type of die used)
1d4 dmg (the type of die used)
5" move (like standard minifig)
4 armor (like standard minifig)
But changed the base armor to 0 and base move to 4"? Then with d4 you would get a vermin and with d6 roughly a minifig. Also, you could make a 1-die creature, but it still would have shitty armor and die quickly.

2) I really like stubby's idea with giving up the dice permanently. Or maybe give an option to unsummon to get the dice back, but you still lose them when creature dies.

3) Last but not least, the summon's natural weapon would have a Use rating equal to the number of dice used in its creation.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:22 am
by RedRover
I love this idea. I would probably keep summoning to either a heroic feat for some sort of wizard / alchemist / mad geneticist cliche. You could also just purchase the summons before hand so the SN action would just be putting them into play and you wouldn't have to keep / sacrifice a dice for them since they were purchased independently

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:17 pm
by stubby
Or, if you want to do summoned units the normal way, you can just get a Spawner from chapter 10. Have a kid carry a WS 1" poke-ball around as the Spawner and summon a size 1 pokemon every turn.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:55 pm
by Gungnir
How about sacrificing units in a ritual? For every 1 inch of creature you sacrifice, you get 1 inch of monster.

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:02 pm
by RedRover
Gungnir wrote:How about sacrificing units in a ritual? For every 1 inch of creature you sacrifice, you get 1 inch of monster.
That would work well for some thematically, but not others!

Re: Summoning units

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:26 pm
by L-Man
RedRover wrote:
Gungnir wrote:How about sacrificing units in a ritual? For every 1 inch of creature you sacrifice, you get 1 inch of monster.
That would work well for some thematically, but not others!
Agreed. Necromancers or Vodoo Shamans look good with unit sacrifice, holy priests - not really.