Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

Moderators: Pwnerade, IVhorseman

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by stubby » Wed May 13, 2015 2:57 pm

Here's my latest idea: since a minifig's Skill rating also reflects strength and general ability, why not replace the d6es in Close Combat damage ratings with the attacker's Skill die? For most minifigs this means nothing changes, since their Skill is already a d6, but a d10 Hero will hit harder with the same weapon and a d4 civilian will be even more pathetic.

There's a follow-up idea, but let's do the math first. Here are our current stats for Close Combat weapons:

Code: Select all

Hand Weapon   Use:2  Dmg:1d6
Heavy Weapon  Use:3  Dmg:1d6+2
2H Weapon     Use:4  Dmg:2d6
Minifig Tool  Use:3  Dmg:1d6-1
Random Object Use:4  Dmg:1d6-2
And here's what I'm thinking of changing them to:

Code: Select all

Hand Weapon   Use:2  Dmg: 1 die
Heavy Weapon  Use:3  Dmg: 1 die +2
2H Weapon     Use:4  Dmg: 2 dice
Minifig Tool  Use:3  Dmg: 1 die -1
Random Object Use:4  Dmg: 1 die -2
I've graphed out some probabilities for killing minifigs (of Armor 4) and Heroes (with Armor 2d6). Note that I've ignored critical successes and failures for these graphs:



The orange line shows the current standard probabilities for killing somebody with different d6-based damage ratings, and the other lines show what happens if you switch to different dice.

The effect is exacerbated when you take weapons' Use ratings into account, since the units whose higher Skill lets them do more damage also makes them more likely to hit:



This makes Heroes and Officers feel appropriately more lethal in Close Combat, and incompetent units appropriately less so.

The follow-up idea is to make it a single roll, so that the successful skill roll automatically becomes the first die in the damage roll. I haven't run the exact numbers on this second idea yet, but this improves lethality even more, since it eliminates low rolls from the damage results, and eliminates critical failures on damage entirely (while still preserving them for the initial attack roll). Under this follow-up system, a successful hit with a Heavy or 2H weapon is almost always a kill, because you have to roll so high to hit in the first place.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
Silent-sigfig
can you feel me?
Posts: 2562
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:20 pm
Location: Number one in USA

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Silent-sigfig » Wed May 13, 2015 3:42 pm

I like this idea a lot. Plus you can still have a gunner-esque unit that has a d8 for melee skill attacks only.
BFenix wrote:
Silent-sigfig wrote: :dog:
Coolest 1000th post ever :D

User avatar
Scratch
Reihawk
Posts: 982
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:23 pm
Location: The Wine Dark Sea

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Scratch » Wed May 13, 2015 4:01 pm

I'm also in favor, this rework will be great for gameflow.
The only unflawed system is Lego System.
Zupponn wrote:
Colette wrote:You're free to make your own map from scratch, however.
All you have to do is flatten his head.
Silverdream wrote:TL;DR Be like Scratch.
Captain-Camper wrote:tl;dr I'm just going to assume don't be like voin and be more like scratch.

Falk
Oh no whatever will we do without the buttplugs
Oh no whatever will we do without the buttplugs
Posts: 1311
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:43 pm

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Falk » Wed May 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Looks good. It should make melee fighting more streamlined.
BrikWars 2010 Rules wrote:BrikWars ... stands in pretty direct opposition to many fundamental elements of the LEGO® philosophy, such as "Not Teaching Kids How Funny It Is to Set People on Fire."
Empire of Luchardsko WIP wiki page

User avatar
Tzan
Has anyone ever used those holes before?
Has anyone ever used those holes before?
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:41 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Tzan » Wed May 13, 2015 4:31 pm

Karpet charts and munching.
New combat rules, with charts.
Its wednesday.
You must be on vacation.

User avatar
Valiant
Don't Steal My Tanks (They're Copyrighted)
Posts: 910
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:02 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Valiant » Wed May 13, 2015 4:56 pm

This looks great, as it reflects a minifig's skill in handling and using a CC weapon. Whereas with a ranged weapon, the 1d6's are still required for what exits the weapon, such as a missile which may or may not be a dud, depending on the damage roll.

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by stubby » Wed May 13, 2015 8:37 pm

Silent-sigfig wrote:I like this idea a lot. Plus you can still have a gunner-esque unit that has a d8 for melee skill attacks only.
Yeah, that's how I came up with the idea originally.

As I look at this more, I'm not sure if it's going to work for d4s - a 0% chance to kill with a hand weapon isn't very BrikWars, and d4s don't get Bonus Dice. So it may just apply to d8s and above.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
Silent-sigfig
can you feel me?
Posts: 2562
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:20 pm
Location: Number one in USA

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Silent-sigfig » Wed May 13, 2015 9:17 pm

stubby wrote:
As I look at this more, I'm not sure if it's going to work for d4s - a 0% chance to kill with a hand weapon isn't very BrikWars, and d4s don't get Bonus Dice. So it may just apply to d8s and above.
On the other hand, civillians would only be effective ganging up on a target.


I'm gonna test this idea in my forum battle and see how it goes
BFenix wrote:
Silent-sigfig wrote: :dog:
Coolest 1000th post ever :D

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by stubby » Wed May 13, 2015 9:38 pm

Silent-sigfig wrote:On the other hand, civillians would only be effective ganging up on a target.

I'm gonna test this idea in my forum battle and see how it goes
Or using two weapons, or using a bigger weapon... there are lots of ways around it; it's just that one point where it's broken.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
RedRover
I want you to be
I want you to be
Posts: 2706
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:36 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by RedRover » Wed May 13, 2015 9:41 pm

Silent-sigfig wrote:
stubby wrote:
As I look at this more, I'm not sure if it's going to work for d4s - a 0% chance to kill with a hand weapon isn't very BrikWars, and d4s don't get Bonus Dice. So it may just apply to d8s and above.
On the other hand, civillians would only be effective ganging up on a target.


I'm gonna test this idea in my forum battle and see how it goes
Angry mob incoming! :fist: :fist: :fist:

User avatar
Silent-sigfig
can you feel me?
Posts: 2562
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:20 pm
Location: Number one in USA

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Silent-sigfig » Wed May 13, 2015 9:51 pm

The only thing I can think of is that it will be slightly harder to break through armor/shielding with no overskill.
BFenix wrote:
Silent-sigfig wrote: :dog:
Coolest 1000th post ever :D

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by stubby » Wed May 13, 2015 10:45 pm

Silent-sigfig wrote:The only thing I can think of is that it will be slightly harder to break through armor/shielding with no overskill.
Nah, that part isn't changing. D4 units already didn't get Overskill, and the other units still get Overskill dice at the same rates they did before.

If anything, it's actually easier now - ever since the change to make Overskill add the same die type as Skill rather than a straight d6, it meant that people playing the Shielding rules too strictly might cancel both a weapon's regular d6 of damage and the non-d6 Overskill damage. This way the weapon damage and the overskill damage are the same die type, so only one will be canceled by shielding.
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

User avatar
Quantumsurfer
Contest Manager
Contest Manager
Posts: 2601
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by Quantumsurfer » Thu May 14, 2015 5:07 am

I actually really like this in theory. I'd need to feel in it play flow to make sure but the idea is a solid one. I have played a few battles in the past, particularly the ones where I spent time recording the results from turn to turn and felt rushed to move the game along, where I completely forgot to even do damage rolls on a few turns.

SN dice might throw a kink in the works, at first blush.

User avatar
*CRAZYHORSE*
Mega Blok
Posts: 1348
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Procrasturbating.

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by *CRAZYHORSE* » Thu May 14, 2015 8:25 am

Even though it adds in a little bit more complexity I actually really like this idea. It would boost the danger of elite CC units even more and it adds another advantage of CC over ranged weapons which i a good thing for gameplay flow. It would also significantly boost Heroes abilities to kill tougher enemies, something which they could only do with their heroic feet before. It makes them real powerhouse which I like.
Just a couple of questions.
-Does this apply to a squads skill being boosted to 1D8 by an officer?
-Do MOMs stay D6's?
-What do the probabilities look like in a charge attack?

Also I didn't know two hand weapons had such a high weapon kill rate. I'm kind of surprised but I guess it still has it's disadvantages such as not being able to charge with them.
Could we some more of these probability charts as I'm loving the insight they give on the actual game mechanics. Maybe we could see how the kill rate would change against an enemy trying to block with a shield or something.
stubby wrote:You were inb4beluga.

User avatar
stubby
tl;dr: the rule of fudge is the entire rulebook
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Replacing melee damage d6es with Skill dice

Post by stubby » Thu May 14, 2015 8:36 am

Instead of a Critical Success or Bonus Die, I might give the d4 guys a Critical Briefly Not Sucking So Much where if they roll a '4' then they can roll a d6 instead of a d4 in the damage roll.
Quantumsurfer wrote:SN dice might throw a kink in the works, at first blush.
How so?
Natalya wrote:Wtf is going on in this thread?

Post Reply