Juggernaut Trait

[OneEye589]

But it would be an extra 1d6 armor against every attack as opposed to the overall damage. Firstly it seems like an extra 1d6 armor, but combined fire can add up quickly. That's the point that BFenix was trying to make at first, that even if you have combined fire shooting at a giant robot or something, the bullets are still going to ricochet off, no matter how many of them there are.

[IVhorseman]

so 1d6 damage resistance against each attack? I feel like combined fire should be able to override a juggernaut's bonuses, but this may actually be a better way to do it. I guess it boils down to whether or not people like the idea of combined fire being a solution to a juggernaut

[OneEye589]

BFenix's original point was that even if a juggernaut were to be fired on from 20 different weapons at the same time, if they were all handguns they wouldn't break his armor. Instead, you would have to hit it with one large superweapon. That's not the case for regular creations even with a high armor, which is why combined fire is so effective. For regular creations, combined fire and superweapons are synonymous. It's finding a way to make them two totally different levels to the juggernaut.

But, since this is Brikwars, there needs to be some way for your measly minifig to blow up the ridiculous creation, even if the chance is minimal. That's why I think damage reduction instead of pure damage negation makes things more exciting. At least then you would HAVE the iconic minifig horde firing on the juggernaut instead of shots not even being wasted on it.

Because of this, like you said, it would be equivalent to an extra 1d6 armor in most cases, but the combined fire thing is kind of a big deal at times, too. If it's 1d6 damage reduction, just calculate it as an extra structure level in the base cost, but give it 1d6 damage reduction instead of the last 1d10 armor.

So a size 2 creation with Juggernaut would have a base cost equivalent of a structure level 3, but only 2d10 armor and 1d6 damage reduction against every separate attack. It could add up pretty quick in certain circumstances.

[Gungnir]

So a size 2 creation with Juggernaut would have a base cost equivalent of a structure level 3, but only 2d10 armor and 1d6 damage reduction against every separate attack. It could add up pretty quick in certain circumstances.

But aren't structure levels limited by creation size in the 2010 rules?

[Keldoclock]

[OneEye589]

So a size 2 creation with Juggernaut would have a base cost equivalent of a structure level 3, but only 2d10 armor and 1d6 damage reduction against every separate attack. It could add up pretty quick in certain circumstances.

But aren't structure levels limited by creation size in the 2010 rules?

That's why they would still be considered structure level 2 creations, like I said. They would just have damage reduction. It's a cost equivalent to.

[IX_Legion]

You could be required to have a death-star like weak spot on the creation, but that gets hazy when you're dealing with juggernaut minifigs (hats and oxygen tanks are about all that comes off the top of my head).

What about the eyes? You can't armor those.

[Ex_Bajir]

I presume this rule would apply for soldiers in powered armor and harsuits/larger powered armors?

[BFenix]

I presume this rule would apply for soldiers in powered armor and harsuits/larger powered armors?

Anything you can thing of.

BFenix's original point was that even if a juggernaut were to be fired on from 20 different weapons at the same time, if they were all handguns they wouldn't break his armor. Instead, you would have to hit it with one large superweapon. That's not the case for regular creations even with a high armor, which is why combined fire is so effective. For regular creations, combined fire and superweapons are synonymous. It's finding a way to make them two totally different levels to the juggernaut.

This is the spirit behind it.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

I like this especially for vehicle with armor that is supposed to protect against light arms fire such as APC's and Tanks. I always kind of hated it when a large armored tank got destroyed because of 10 minifigs firing at it with guns, it just seemed weird.

[IVhorseman]

I presume this rule would apply for soldiers in powered armor and harsuits/larger powered armors?

Fat doodz

[Ex_Bajir]

I presume this rule would apply for soldiers in powered armor and harsuits/larger powered armors?

Fat doodz

those too

[IX_Legion]

I actually like OneEye's idea. Seems like a lot of rolling, though. Winds up being a little like shields. Although, a 5d6 weapon would activate up to 5 shield points, but only 1d6 with this idea. Hmm.  

[Natalya]

Imagine that you gaze at your finished 30-inch tall model of Godzilla.

The AC is in fact 30" tall.  Though in terms of size in inches for BrikWars it counts as a size 13 creation.

Lets say the weapon used is a rifle (1d6+1 damage). Would you consider the net damage to the juggernaut as 0 or 1?  That is, would taking away the d6 leave behind the +1?  This would be a more pressing question when talking about the Assyrian heavy laser rifle (1d6+5 damage).

Good question. I'd imagine it would reduce it to zero, since those bonuses apply to the die roll. If there's no die roll, there's no damage roll to apply the bonus to. I could see how you'd argue that the juggernaut should take 5 damage because assyrian rifles are so hardxcore, but I feel like the rule should work best as an extreme, reducing damage from ANYTHING with only one die of damage to zero.

I may re-work that gun's stats, but the concept behind it is that IRL if you get shot by a M-16, you will probably die.  If you don't die immediately, you will almost certainly be maimed so severely that you will not be able to continue fighting.  That's why the ASE Heavy Laser Rifle does so much damage; it is to make sure that you die when you get shot by it.  Even the hugest body-builder ever with super muscles wearing a kevlar vest would get killed if shot by an M-16 in the torso.  Only super-expensive ceramic plate + kevlar body armour would protect you.

so 1d6 damage resistance against each attack? I feel like combined fire should be able to override a juggernaut's bonuses, but this may actually be a better way to do it. I guess it boils down to whether or not people like the idea of combined fire being a solution to a juggernaut

Taking away combined fire makes even medium-armoured units nearly impossible to take down without heavy weapons, which would then get a skill penalty against a minifigure.  If you want to say that a creation can resist damage from small arms, you could give it something like a -2 damage to all non-explosive projectile weapons armour modifier.  Because like, plasma or lasers would probably still burn or melt it, right?  Or if it was wearing shiny stuff, you could have a -2 damage modifier against lasers.  If it had a magnetic field projector then the -2 damage could be used against plasma weapons.

[IVhorseman]

Even the hugest body-builder ever with super muscles wearing a kevlar vest would get killed if shot by an M-16 in the torso.  Only super-expensive ceramic plate + kevlar body armour would protect you.

So this is the quote I'm gonna work with, because we have to remember that we're playing Brikwars with Minifigs, and not some kind of Tactical Simulator or something. Minifigs have the physics and biology of an 80s cartoon show about genetically engineered supersoldiers fighting Chairman Mao and his robot ninjas. Even when a minifig is shot directly in the head, he just loses a chunk of plastic and keeps going. When they get brutally injured or maimed beyond recognition, they don't go into shock or bleed to death or any other "pussy stuff" like that. They just get mad. That's why minifigs who lose arms and legs are considered to keep on fighting and not bother about the inevitable blood loss until after the battle. So it's for these cases that I insist we follow action movie rules, not real life.

Taking away combined fire makes even medium-armoured units nearly impossible to take down without heavy weapons, which would then get a skill penalty against a minifigure.

Actually, small arms are pretty okay at taking down armored figs as well. Sure heavy weapons are harder to hit with, but not impossible. Similarly, all OTHER weapons will still deal damage on a critical (are you familiar with the overskill rules? because I definitely missed them on my first few gos through 2010), so you actually get a pretty good chance at getting through the armor anyways. Besides, keeping track of lots of -2s is hard when you're playing against anyone but yourself.