More Rulebook Questions - Calculator edition

[WestNordOst]

While extending the MOC construction cost calculator (http://www.brikwars.com/forums/viewtopi ... =5&t=12365), I came across a few special cases where I am unsure what the actual rules are. I implemented it the way I think it is the correct interpretation but please correct me if I am wrong. Here are the things I was unsure about:

The rulebook states: "The Move rating of Vehicles on legs or treads is further limited to 5" times the Vehicle's Size. ". However, this is mentioned in the context of determining a default move rating: "If players have a hard time choosing a Move rating, the following defaults can be used: ". So I can ignore this limit for creations with custom movement speed?

Assumption: This limit (and others mentioned in the same paragraph) are only for calculating a movement speed default, which itself is optional.

The power requirement of Bastard weapons is never explicitly stated. As they can like any other weapon be mounted on a MOC, this is important to know.

Assumption: They use 1.5 power.

The rulebook states: "Standard Propulsion: 1CP per 2" Move". What about odd movement rates? E.g. 15"?

Assumption: 15 / 2 = 7.5 CP. Numbers behind the dot are OK as long as it is limited to one half. After all, Base Construction Costs of a 1" construction with armor 1d6 is also 0.5.

The rulebook does not mention a size limit for energy shields (and other field hazards). Is it possible to have energy shields that are so small that they cover only parts of the construction?

Assumption: Yes.

The strength of a field hazard (how many dice are available) is limited by the size of the field hazard: A 3" energy shield cannot have more than 3 dice. But the rulebook does not disallow to have several Shield Projectors on one construction (that each cover the same area). So couldn't the rule to have the strength limit bound to the size be circumvented this way?

Assumption: Yes.

Can you stack several Armor Plating in the same area, effectively giving you the Shielded effect for the same area twice?

Assumption: No. No Armor Plate over Armor Plate.

An incompetent mind costs half but only has 1d4 skill. A subjugated mind also costs half but has skill 1d6. Is it possible to have an incompetent subjugated mind? (E.g. an enslaved civilian)

Assumption: Yes, but the mind does not get even cheaper that way. (It's not half of half the costs.)

The rulebook does not list the (cost of) specialities those expert Minifigs have. Certainly one could put them into his own creations but are the costs dependent on the creations size (and half-mind status) - as it is with multidexterity and multitasking?

Assumption: No. These are fixed costs. (Really a shot in the dark here!)

Does the spawner use up the creation's power?

Assumption: Yes.

[stubby]

Can you stack several Armor Plating in the same area, effectively giving you the Shielded effect for the same area twice?

Assumption: No. No Armor Plate over Armor Plate.

All correct except this one. Even though it could be abused in theory, I would allow stacked Armor Plating as long as you actually build a separate physical Armor Plating for each one in the stack.

I need to remember to add a separate note that Armor Plating has no Power cost for non-moving Creations like buildings, unless it's part of a moving device within the building (like armored blast doors or something). This would also apply to Starcraft-style Siege Tanks, where you go into "siege mode" and are treated as a building rather than a vehicle.

The rulebook does not list the (cost of) specialities those expert Minifigs have. Certainly one could put them into his own creations but are the costs dependent on the creations size (and half-mind status) - as it is with multidexterity and multitasking?

Assumption: No. These are fixed costs. (Really a shot in the dark here!)

That's right as far as I can think of. Multidexterity and Multitasking scale with Size, because they multiply the Size-based abilities of a Creature. I'm trying to think of other Specialties that would follow the same rule... I guess Compensating might. If the effect of Compensating is to add +1" to Effective Size, then it wouldn't scale. If the effect of Compensating is to double the Effective Size, then it would have to scale.

[WestNordOst]

I need to remember to add a separate note that Armor Plating has no Power cost for non-moving Creations like buildings, unless it's part of a moving device within the building (like armored blast doors or something). This would also apply to Starcraft-style Siege Tanks, where you go into "siege mode" and are treated as a building rather than a vehicle.

It's already in the rulebook. I read: "Armor Plating is not counted against a Creation's Power limit."

[stubby]

Oh all right good. I've been confusing myself with all the different edits lately; Melee Shields used to be a kind of Armor Plating rather than their own category, so Armor Plating used to have a Power requirement.

[WestNordOst]

Do you keep a changelog around somewhere? If not, could you perhaps open a forum topic about it? It's probably too much to ask but it would be much easier for me to update the calculator to the current rules then.

Or, I could also give the calculator source to you as soon as it is feature-complete (and cleaned up the code to be easier to understand) so it can be used as a supplement to the rulebook like the stat cards and other tools. What do you think of that?

[WestNordOst]

Another two questions regarding shields:

Is an energy shield activated in the player's turn or in the enemy's turn (just before the damage would occur)?

Lets say a 5" vehicle has two energy shields: One 1" energy shield to protect the otherwise unprotected cockpit (dice:1), one 5" energy shield to protect the whole vehicle (dice: 3). Two questions actually here:
1. Regarding power: Does it cost only 1 power to activate the cockpit's energy shield (for one die) and 5 times as much for the vehicle energy shield to activate (for one die)?
2. Let's say the vehicle activates all it's energy shields. If someone shoots at the vehicle and does not specify where, does the shot automatically land on the most well protected area (the cockpit as it has 3 shield dice) just like with armor plating?

Assumptions:
1. Yes. Imbalanced? It makes small energy shields very cost efficient and big energy shields the opposite. To have many small energy shields protecting different parts of the vehicle is more cost-efficient than having a big one. Since there is no limit on how many energy shields a construction can have, a bit of an exploit.
2. Consistency would deduce: Yes. But this is kind of an exploit as it again favors small energy shields that cover only (tiny) of the construction.

Lets say I have a 10" long vehicle and I cover it with armor plates on the left and right side. I now have 2x 10" armor plating, costing me 20 CP. The front and back and top and bottom are not protected.
Instead, can I just say that the whole vehicle is actually covered with armor plates, costing me only half of it and covering all of front, back, bottom, top, left and right.

Assumption:Yes. It's and exploit.

[stubby]

If a Field Hazard is powered by a Creation rather than occurring naturally, then every Hazard Die rolled uses up one inch of the Creation's Power limit for Weapon use for that turn.

So rolling 1d6 for a 5" Shield uses up 1 Power.

Shots do automatically hit the most well-protected area, if the shooter doesn't specify what he's shooting at. It would behoove the shooter, in these instances, to always say "I'm shooting at the largest un-Shielded section of the vehicle."

[stubby]

Is an energy shield activated in the player's turn or in the enemy's turn (just before the damage would occur)?

Oh, I forgot to answer the other question.

The shield activates when the damage occurs. If nobody shoots at you, the shield never activates, and there's no Power cost. If somebody shoots you five times, then the shield activates five times, and there's five activations' worth of Power cost. Unless you run out of Power, in which case the shield stops activating, and you can't use any weapons either.

[Coriolanus]

That's right as far as I can think of. Multidexterity and Multitasking scale with Size, because they multiply the Size-based abilities of a Creature. I'm trying to think of other Specialties that would follow the same rule...

I have always considered heroic egos to be size dependent, since larger heroes can usually do more spectacular feats.

[WestNordOst]

What is the difference between a 2" melee weapon and a Two-Handed Weapon (L)?
According to chapter 8, there is none. However, a 2" melee weapon has usage rating 3 while a two-handed weapon for minifigs has usage rating 4. A mistake?

What is the difference between an 1" Armor Plating and a minifig's Heavy Armor?
Both have the same effect but the Heavy Armor costs 2CP, the Armor Plating only 1CP. A mistake?

[WestNordOst]

How do melee weapon/shield specialities scale?
In the rules for minifig weapons, there are noted some specialities. But it is unclear how they work against structures with a different structure size than 1". This should perhaps be clarified in the rules. Here are some issues:

Heavy Weapon (M): 1" KnockBack to minifigs (no Disruption)
Two-Handed Weapon (L): 1" KnockBack to minifigs

But there is no info how bigger melee weapons affect (at least I didn't find it) knockback on the targets. I guess it is

Code: Select all

knockback = (weapon size) - (target structure size)

with the addendum that if the result of that calculation is 0.5, it means 1" knockback but without disruption.

Shield (S): can Parry Charge attacks

Can it also parry charge attacks from larger creatures like a horse? Or is it:

Code: Select all

if shield size >= charging structure size: can parry

Heavy Weapon (M): may be paired with Shield or Heavy Shield

How does that behave with bigger weapons and shields on larger creations? I think it would work if one said that shields use "0.5x its size" power instead of "1x its size".

Two-Handed Weapon (L): -1" Move; can't Sprint;

How does this scale with larger creations? A 5" tank with a total of 10" guns can sprint but not if he had a 10" hammer on top instead of its guns?

Body Armor: Move -1", can't swim

How does it scale? Does it scale?

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

I too would like to know answers to these questions.
It think that most of these questions are caused by Stubby implementing a new idea or making little tweaks in one chapter and then forgetting about the interconnected rules in another chapter.
Overall I think that when the rules are conceptually finalized that it would need a final run of decluttering and simplification. Even though the rules are quite clear I still feel like some parts take way to much text to explain relatively simple concepts.
But ofcourse it's kind of hard to reduce the amount of text without removing all the funnies in there.

[stubby]

Even though the rules are quite clear I still feel like some parts take way to much text to explain relatively simple concepts.

This has been my biggest focus for the last couple of months. My usual course is to write out everything I can think of, cover every possible base, and then delete 90% of it over the course of playtesting.

[stubby]

How do melee weapon/shield specialities scale?
In the rules for minifig weapons, there are noted some specialities. But it is unclear how they work against structures with a different structure size than 1". This should perhaps be clarified in the rules. Here are some issues:

Heavy Weapon (M): 1" KnockBack to minifigs (no Disruption)
Two-Handed Weapon (L): 1" KnockBack to minifigs

But there is no info how bigger melee weapons affect (at least I didn't find it) knockback on the targets. I guess it is

Code: Select all

knockback = (weapon size) - (target structure size)

This is correct. The info is in a subsection of 8.1:

KnockBack
Whenever a large Weapon hits a small target, it causes KnockBack similar to a Collision or Explosion, regardless of whether the target survives the damage. Any time a Weapon is larger than the Size of a target it strikes, the target is Knocked Back one inch for every inch of difference between the Weapon Size and the target's Effective Size, with the usual potential for being Disrupted as a result.

For large Explosives, the KnockBack from the large Weapon Size is replaced by the KnockBack from the Explosion Damage.

with the addendum that if the result of that calculation is 0.5, it means 1" knockback but without disruption.

Sort of, but not really. Bastard weapons are kind of roughly equivalent to Size 1.5" weapons, but all of their stats are individually tweaked to make them "feel" thematically appropriate. So this is just a special case. Some Bastard weapons cause the 1" knockback without disruption, some don't.

Shield (S): can Parry Charge attacks

Can it also parry charge attacks from larger creatures like a horse?

Yes. All Shields can parry all charge attacks, although small shields parry less of the damage than large ones of course.

Heavy Weapon (M): may be paired with Shield or Heavy Shield

How does that behave with bigger weapons and shields on larger creations? I think it would work if one said that shields use "0.5x its size" power instead of "1x its size".

This is another case where you can't really think of the M weapons as literal 1.5" weapons. Their stats are fudged to match thematic weapon use.

That being said, I may be limiting the Heavy Weapon + Heavy Shield combo to Heavy Infantry / Hoplites once chapter 11 is in place. Still working on that one.

Two-Handed Weapon (L): -1" Move; can't Sprint;

How does this scale with larger creations? A 5" tank with a total of 10" guns can sprint but not if he had a 10" hammer on top instead of its guns?

It only scales for hand-held weapons. Unless the tank has arms and hands, it's not hand-held.

Hand-Held Weapons
When Weapons are carried in a Creation's hands (or the equivalent), rather than mounted directly to the Creation itself, they are subject to some of the same limitations as minifig weapons.

This is partly a balancing move, because a Creation with arms and hands is a lot more versatile than one without, even though arms and hands don't cost anything.

Body Armor: Move -1", can't swim

How does it scale? Does it scale?

I don't see any great thematic advantage to making this one scale the way I did for the weapons (although I guess I did give Horses a special Horse Body Armor in H.1). Regular old Armor Plating is probably the better bet most of the time.

[WestNordOst]

It only scales for hand-held weapons. Unless the tank has arms and hands, it's not hand-held.

And how does it scale?
If size of one weapon >= structure size x2 then it can't sprint and has -structure size" move?