BW 2010 feedback

[stubby]

Big update today! It's been awhile, hasn't it? I'm not sure I can even remember everything that's gotten polished up, so expect minor polish and new photos and illustrations basically everywhere, and sorry if I forget to mention anything here.

The main purpose of this update was to get the rulebook ready for Chapter 11, because a lot of rules that work well (or well enough) for individual units just weren't holding up in playtests when spread across fighting squads.

Updates are all the way from the Universe and Legal chapters up through Chapter 9. I'm saving Chapter 10 for its own update because it's going to be complicated.

Here's the main stuff to look for.

• Ch. 3, Minifig Weapons
  Close Combat weapon damage is now based on a unit's Skill die rather than a d6. (I still need to update chapter 8's melee weapons to reflect this change.)
  Minifigs can carry and fire dual pistols if they want.
  
  Ch. 4, The Player Turn
  Half Speed doesn't stack anymore. Multiple Half Speeds are just the same as a single Half Speed.
  Overskill Dice are now used for more stuff. If you use them for extra Damage, they add one more die of the weapon's damage type.
  A unit who Bails can use an Overskill die to land on his feet, for instance.
  
  Ch. 5, Combat
  Close Combat has been re-jiggered for Squads, so that you don't have to keep such close track of who's responding to what, and the close combat attack sequence is much more modular so you can handle a bunch of dudes at the same time. The attack sequence now goes
  • Attack -> Counter -> remove casualties
    Counterattack -> Counter -> remove casualties
    repeat as needed.
  Parrying is now based completely on the Use rating of the weapon you're parrying with, rather than the skill roll of the attacker. This was necessary for Squad combat.
  Parrying can get a Size bonus against large weapons like a 2H weapon.
  Momentum Dice are now a much more general-purpose d6, like a specialized Benny or a Supernatural d6. You can still use them for the same stuff as before (although that's been streamlined a bit also), but now also stuff like long jumps, pole vaults, spear throwing, jumping cars over buses, figuring out how far a vehicle skids after losing power, etc. etc.
  
  Ch. 6, Minifig Heroes
  Finally remembered to add BFenix to ch. 6.
  
  Ch. H, The Horse
  Control of a riderless Horse now passes back and forth between Enemies, who get to control it for either a Movement or an Action but not both.
  
  MOC Combat
  Ossum and Intersectional Khronology are added to this chapter.
  The Almighty Benny has also been moved here from Ch. 1.
  
  Ch. 7, Structures
  Size Damage no longer knocks off inches of Movement, although a vehicle knocked down to half Effective Size is reduced to Half Speed. If you want to damage Movement specifically, attack the Propulsion systems.
  
  Ch. 8, Weaponry
  The Heavy has been moved up to the Weapon Size section, closer to the part about Power Limits. The bit about Turrets has been expanded.
  There's now a rare chance to Prematurely Detonate an Explosive on purpose with an Overskill die, or accidentally in a Critical Failure.
  Fire Levels are out. All Fire is now 1d4 Fire, and the only thing that matters is its Fire Size. Fire has been simplified in general.
  All forms of Exposure Damage now briefly Overload a target, taking inches out of its Power limit.
  Slippery Fields work a little differently than before.
  A Detected Stealth unit can now be located at any point within the Detection range, not just the farthest possible point.
  
  Ch. 9, Vehicles
  Default propulsion speeds are simplified to a base number of inches.
  The Rotation Due To Gravity sidebar is now followed by a Just Kidding sidebar.
  Minifigs piloting a vehicle can fire any number of ranged weapons or any number of melee weapons up to the vehicle's Power limit.
  
  There's still a lot of work to do on Ch.10.

Like I said, there were a ton of minor changes and polish in this revision, so if you notice something that I forgot to mention, let me know and I'll add it to the list.

[Silent-sigfig]

So when is brikwars 2015 coming out?

[stubby]

Currently scheduled for 2008

[Kommander Ken]

Looks like I'll be re-reading some of this stuff for HH. Can't wait to try out some bigger units out.

[Silent-sigfig]

Also, some critiques, concerns and suggestions.

Any minifig who takes Damage from a hit with a Heavy Weapon is pushed one inch directly away from the attacker, regardless of whether the Damage kills him, as if he were experiencing KnockBack from an Explosion (3.2: Ranged Weapons). Unlike most forms of KnockBack, KnockBack from a Heavy Weapon does not cause a minifig to be Disrupted (4.1: Movement) - they are pushed backwards but manage to stay on their feet.

I don't think minifigs should always receive knockback from heavy or two-handed melee weapons--It doesn't seem like something anyone would bother to keep track of.

Unlike regular Bonus Dice, which always add +1d6, an Overskill Die adds an additional die of the weapon's Damage type. A 1d6+1 Rifle gets an Overskill Die of +1d6, while a 1d10 (Exp) Grenade gets an Overskill die of +1d10 (Exp), making it twice as Explosive

I think the overskill die should be the skill of the unit that made the roll. I've been playing that way for a while, and it works really well.


MOC COMBAT:

The Benny section should go before anything involving kanon.



Ideas to toy with:



I feel like body armor and two-handed weapons shouldn't give a -1 movement penalty, but instead make other types of movement difficult.

Any type of melle weapon should be allowed as a charging weapon. Explosives too, because it would be funny.

I really like a unit being able to be charmed.

[stubby]

I don't think minifigs should always receive knockback from heavy or two-handed melee weapons--It doesn't seem like something anyone would bother to keep track of.

I expect some people will just ignore this one. But it does make close combat feel a lot more meaty, and heavy weapons feel like actual heavy weapons rather than just a hand weapon with a +1 on it.

On the flip side, I'm not sure if it will hold up in Squad combat yet.

Unlike regular Bonus Dice, which always add +1d6, an Overskill Die adds an additional die of the weapon's Damage type. A 1d6+1 Rifle gets an Overskill Die of +1d6, while a 1d10 (Exp) Grenade gets an Overskill die of +1d10 (Exp), making it twice as Explosive

I think the overskill die should be the skill of the unit that made the roll. I've been playing that way for a while, and it works really well.

That's part of the trick - for melee weapons, it is the skill of the unit that made the roll, because melee damage is based on skill dice. For ranged weapons though, I want to preserve and amplify the specific damage type. Explosions get explodier, fire gets fierier, lightning bolts get lightninger, etc.

My big objection to overskill right now is that it's a lot easier for low-skill units to overskill than high-skill units. Right now I'm looking at changing Overskill to "any roll of six or higher on a skill die" rather than tying it to trading in Bonus Dice. It'd turn Skill d10 heroes into real combat monsters.

The Benny section should go before anything involving kanon.

It's tricky, because I want to introduce Ossum before I introduce Benny rewarding you for being Ossum. But I'm still looking at rearranging content in MOC Combat, Close Combat in chapter 5, and chapter 8.

I feel like body armor and two-handed weapons shouldn't give a -1 movement penalty, but instead make other types of movement difficult.

The -1" does feel inelegant, but I haven't found an alternate penalty that really appeals to me yet.

I really like a unit being able to be charmed.

Right now Charm attacks are SuperNatural Mind attacks, covered in chapter 10. But I might also make them a funny sidebar variety of Poison (chapter 8), and I've also been thinking about giving Leaders a Wololo-style attack (chapter 11).

[Silent-sigfig]

I don't think minifigs should always receive knockback from heavy or two-handed melee weapons--It doesn't seem like something anyone would bother to keep track of.

I expect some people will just ignore this one. But it does make close combat feel a lot more meaty, and heavy weapons feel like actual heavy weapons rather than just a hand weapon with a +1 on it.

On the flip side, I'm not sure if it will hold up in Squad combat yet.

Fair enough. I feel like ignoring it is for the best though--smacking a guy farther away doesn't make much sense when you're locked in close combat.

Unlike regular Bonus Dice, which always add +1d6, an Overskill Die adds an additional die of the weapon's Damage type. A 1d6+1 Rifle gets an Overskill Die of +1d6, while a 1d10 (Exp) Grenade gets an Overskill die of +1d10 (Exp), making it twice as Explosive

I think the overskill die should be the skill of the unit that made the roll. I've been playing that way for a while, and it works really well.

That's part of the trick - for melee weapons, it is the skill of the unit that made the roll, because melee damage is based on skill dice. For ranged weapons though, I want to preserve and amplify the specific damage type. Explosions get explodier, fire gets fierier, lightning bolts get lightninger, etc.

My big objection to overskill right now is that it's a lot easier for low-skill units to overskill than high-skill units. Right now I'm looking at changing Overskill to "any roll of six or higher on a skill die" rather than tying it to trading in Bonus Dice. It'd turn Skill d10 heroes into real combat monsters.

I guess this a matter of interpretation. I'm not too concerned about explosives being explodier, but I feel like a hero having a critical success should do more damage than a regular unit getting a critical success.

The Benny section should go before anything involving kanon.

It's tricky, because I want to introduce Ossum before I introduce Benny rewarding you for being Ossum. But I'm still looking at rearranging content in MOC Combat, Close Combat in chapter 5, and chapter 8.

I think awesome is fairly self-explanatory, but It could really go anywhere. It's just in the importance pecking order, I see Bennys as way more important than kanon, which probably doesn't deserve a mention.

I feel like body armor and two-handed weapons shouldn't give a -1 movement penalty, but instead make other types of movement difficult.

The -1" does feel inelegant, but I haven't found an alternate penalty that really appeals to me yet.

Maybe just no sprinting, or simple actions cost twice the amount of inches, or you automatically drop everything when you bail? I can see how this one is tricky to write without being convoluted.

I really like a unit being able to be charmed.

Right now Charm attacks are SuperNatural Mind attacks, covered in chapter 10. But I might also make them a funny sidebar variety of Poison (chapter 8), and I've also been thinking about giving Leaders a Wololo-style attack (chapter 11).

Speaking of which, what are leaders shaping up to b? I've been using my Command banner idea, but I really think a simpler way is better.

[Quantumsurfer]

From a non-mechanical standpoint, there's more of a solid feeling of "playing" the game, interacting with it, than in a lot of wargames when it comes to the knockback and angry inch type rules. A regular wargame is often very precise with positioning and movement and these kinds of rules handwave that away in favor of playing with the toys themselves. If I'm honest, I forget to use these kinds of rules most of the time, though.

There are some interesting interactions, though, on a basic mechanical level.

[Kommander Ken]

Brikwars master race.

[stubby]

Fair enough. I feel like ignoring it is for the best though--smacking a guy farther away doesn't make much sense when you're locked in close combat.

Wow, I completely feel the opposite - for me, in-your-face Close Combat is all about pushing enemies back and trying to dictate their positioning. Just standing in place and waiting for the dice to decide everything seems super static and dull. I can't think of a fight I've ever been in that wasn't ultimately decided by where one guy was able to put the other.

This is not to say that you're playing wrong. I want to support that dull kind of stand-still-and-tediously-exchange-dice combat too; I know it's what a lot of people are used to from D&D-style gaming. It's just so opposite to what I enjoy personally.

So it might just end up as "if you hit a minifig with a Heavy Weapon, you have the option of forcing him backwards an inch" or something. So that it's not mandatory, just an option.

I guess this a matter of interpretation. I'm not too concerned about explosives being explodier, but I feel like a hero having a critical success should do more damage than a regular unit getting a critical success.

I have a lot of not-entirely-connected thoughts about this, so I'm just going to list them out. Not because I think your opinion is wrong, but just to show where I'm coming from on this one.

If I switch Overskill to a Skill-based Damage Bonus, then everybody does less damage with an explosion, even the Hero. A 1d10 explosion plus 1d10 Skill damage is still less than a standard everyday 2d10 explosion, because the former has a 2" radius and the latter has 4".

With the specialized attacks, I feel like it's not about just increasing the damage, it's about increasing what the unit is trying to accomplish. If damage is what you care about, you wouldn't have a flamethrower in the first place; every other weapon is more effective at straight damage output. If you do have a flamethrower, it's because you want to set things on fire, and so when you get a bonus I want to increase your ability to set things on fire rather than just assigning a generic damage bonus. I want Overskill to make your efforts more effective, not more damaging.

Thematically, it's hard to make sense of an explosive that does a bunch more damage without exploding bigger, or a fire that does a bunch more damage without burning hotter. With close combat weapons, a generic flavorless damage bonus makes a lot more sense: a strong guy hits harder than a weak guy with the same weapon, because of course he does. With ranged weapons, not so much. Even a gun is kind of weird; the bullet leaves the rifle at the same velocity regardless of whether you're a hardened soldier or a toddler playing with mom's assault rifle. You can fudge it by saying the soldier is better at targeting vitals or something, but at the end of the day it's the same bullet with the same power behind it.

Like the knockback from Heavy Weapons, this one can also be fixed by saying "on Overskill you can add one extra die of the Weapon's damage rating, or the unit's Skill die as a damage bonus, according to preference," but I feel like this really misses an opportunity to play up the unit's chosen flavor.

The Benny section should go before anything involving kanon.

It's tricky, because I want to introduce Ossum before I introduce Benny rewarding you for being Ossum. But I'm still looking at rearranging content in MOC Combat, Close Combat in chapter 5, and chapter 8.

I think awesome is fairly self-explanatory, but It could really go anywhere. It's just in the importance pecking order, I see Bennys as way more important than kanon, which probably doesn't deserve a mention.

Ossum and awesome are two different things though. Right now I feel like the distinction is important, but that section is still pretty new still, and I often end up changing my mind on that kind of thing once I've had the chance to chew on it awhile. But pecking order is less important to me than making sure new concepts are introduced properly before using them in mechanics.

Most likely, the section on Ossum will stay in some form as the lead-in to the Bennies, because the Almighty Benny fluff is pretty weak by comparison. I might separate it from the Kanon material though. Like I said, I'm not super happy with the flow of that whole section and am looking at rearranging things.

I feel like body armor and two-handed weapons shouldn't give a -1 movement penalty, but instead make other types of movement difficult.

The -1" does feel inelegant, but I haven't found an alternate penalty that really appeals to me yet.

Maybe just no sprinting, or simple actions cost twice the amount of inches, or you automatically drop everything when you bail? I can see how this one is tricky to write without being convoluted.

I'm open to suggestions on this. Having to drop 2H Weapons for certain kinds of maneuvers has some potential, but having to drop Body Armor doesn't work as well. It'd be nice to have a similar solution for both, but not completely necessary.

I really like a unit being able to be charmed.

Right now Charm attacks are SuperNatural Mind attacks, covered in chapter 10. But I might also make them a funny sidebar variety of Poison (chapter 8), and I've also been thinking about giving Leaders a Wololo-style attack (chapter 11).

The more I think about using the Poison rules for unit conversion, the more I like it. It has all the right effects; a Wololo is effectively Poisoning a unit's loyalty (rolling against Skill instead of Armor), and it might take a couple turns of weakness before the victim either succumbs to conversion or overcomes the temptation. A Clerik with a bullhorn could use it as a propaganda-shooting flamethrower.

Speaking of which, what are leaders shaping up to b? I've been using my Command banner idea, but I really think a simpler way is better.

The version I'm using in the Rainbow War right now is the most successful so far - Leaders have an Inspire ability that lets them give one Leadership Benny per turn to anyone they can see and communicate with, and a Scapegoat ability that lets them throw their own units under a bus for extra Inspiration.

There was originally going to be a Demoralization penalty if you got your leader killed, but I wanted to expand the Leader concept to include more expendable buffing units like CheerLeaders and so forth, who wouldn't logically be important enough to carry that kind of penalty.

What I might consider is separating them into regular run-of-the-mill Leaders who can spend Actions to grant simple re-rolls, and unique Great Leaders who have the Inspiration Bennies and Scapegoats and Demoralization and all that extra nonsense.

[*CRAZYHORSE*]

Haha just noticed the trigger warning in the legal disclaimer. Nice touch.

[stubby]

The Leader stats I'm currently running with are as follows:

• Specialty: Inspiration
  Once a turn, the Leader can Inspire one unit or squad within his line of sight or that he can otherwise communicate with, granting them a d6 Instant Benny.
  
  Unlike Heroic Feats, a Leader's Inspiration depends on words, not action. The Leader must make a speech, even if the Inspiration is otherwise action-based. The player must roleplay this speech, even if it's completely over-the-top, ridiculous, or stupid.
  
  Specialty: Scapegoating
  The Leader can generate additional Inspiration by throwing his underlings under a bus. The Leader may select any minifig or minifigs on his own team to take the blame for his mistakes. These minifigs are now Traitors. Control of the Traitors falls permanently to a current Enemy of the Leader's choice, and the they take their full Traitor movement and action under Enemy control immediately, even if they had already moved or acted during the turn.
  
  For every Traitor thus created, the Leader can immediately hand out one Inspiration die equal to the Traitor's Skill die, making a ridiculous speech as usual.

Warhead had an idea a couple years back about Great Leaders who could make a big speech to have a permanent effect on their entire army, but they could only do it once per battle so you had to choose wisely. I really like this idea, but haven't figured out how to set up the system to reward players who save it for an appropriately crucial moment instead of blowing it on turn 1 for a generic damage bonus or something.

[CaptainZebra]

Aren't all benny's d6s?

[stubby]

Normally yes, but this is an exception so that the value of the bonus depends on the value of the unit sacrificed.

[CaptainZebra]

That makes more sense... Would like to try some of these soon