Discussion: Your thoughts on Lego's kid-ifying of themes

[Av4l4nChE]

So, on my Creations thread, me, AZKAMAT, and TheVengefulOne brought up the subject of Lego's ever-increasingly juvenile themes. I'll post what happened so far:

Unfortunately, you're right about Cool Creations. I hate how more and more, Lego has been deliberately catering ONLY to young kids. I miss the more interesting themes, like Agents, Power Miners, Mars Mission, etc. The best they can do is create crappy parodies, like Ultra Agents, for example. The theme is obviously a recreation of Agents, but it's so...childish. Everything has that too bright, too exaggerated feel, you know? Granted, I'd bet significant money Agents itself was a recreation of Alpha Team, but I don't think it did it injustice, just kind of a different feel.

Sorry. You've triggered a very sore point with me. The whole baby-izing of Lego is a huge rant-starter for me.

-Me

That's something I find curious as Lego has been de-kiddyfying their brand in other respects. They're WAY less cautious about including military stuff than they used to be. Compare the colonel Harding figure from one of the Man of Steel sets a few years back to the more recent Jurassic World security guys. The former was so boring and bland you'd think they didn't want to include him at all. The latter look like they could be IRL private military guys.

In way this subject touches something I've noticed here in Brikwars for years now: most armies use figure parts from before 2010. Even these days, albeit less so as with Motorhead fan's army. I've always wondered if this is because of the age of the people playing or because the newer parts don't appeal...

-AZKAMAT

Now that you mention it, you're definitely right about that. I thought just now, though: they might be more lax about military-esque figures (huzzah!), but I only see this on their licensed themes (like super heroes). I meant more specifically the Lego-made lines, the ones not licensed (AKA not peach). You are for sure right about the recent influx of military themes in recent licensed themes. I guess with all the newer, more specialized pieces, Lego can't help but A: more accurately represent the more "aggressive" looking vehicles and structures from movies, and B: match those vehicles and structures with equally realistic minifigs. If the Jurassic World makes the security guys look awesome, Lego can't help but to create them more accurately with their newer pieces.

For example, look at the Republic Fighter Tank:



The original. Bulky ( and in my opinion, cooler, and more accurate. Its a freaking tank, after all! )



The remake. Much more streamlined, and using more specialized pieces than the original. Granted, it is a $25 set as opposed to a $60.

If Lego went back to making sets with more bulky, basic bricks, the market might not like it, so they must use the more specialized pieces to create more realistic models.

Sorry I unloaded this huge message on you. I really enjoy discussing stuff like this.

-Me

Just look at how we went from molded guns to stud shooters and flick-fire missiles to those huge transparent things. Lego is targeting kids more and more, and seem to be getting lazy, just look at the last Pirates theme, they just slightly changed a bunch of sets from not even 10 years ago. *hopes for a cool story from Mike about this*

-TheVengefulOne

I halfway don't mind the stud shooters, just not as a total replacement to the molded guns. If it were me, I would've included, like one per set, as a munitions launcher kind of thing, thus increasing value and collectibility, but whatever.

It makes sense. Molded guns for small arms, stud shooters for heavy infantry weapons, flick fires for vehicle mounted rocket weapons. If they wanted something for a BIG gun, just use one of the spring loaded, rubber-headed missiles. Love those things.

-Me

Av4l4nChE wrote:
Sorry I unloaded this huge message on you. I really enjoy discussing stuff like this.


No no, I enjoy it likewise. I love studying toy companies from a distance. I also don't like the new(ish) trend of girls making up what seems like half of all minifigs across as many themes as they can get away with. Frankly, though, I think that's going to pass along with the rest of the "Girls, girls everywhere!" phenomenon. That's something that bugs me even outside of Brikwars. Just go look at IRL breakdowns of biological sex among construction workers and compare it to what's represented in the sets to get a hint at my thinking. Although experience tells me one priority of businesses is to avoid controversy (and controversial labels) so I suppose I can't blame them.

I agree with you about the Pirate Sets, but honestly what more can they do with them? They've produced that theme for decades now and I'm sure they're at the Simpsons conundrum of having to recycle past iterations.

Man, seeing that old tank gives me a real feels-bad about buying the current one. The current one just doesn't capture the SW BFII Republic/Empire hover tank at all. Still might buy it tho just to add "Hot Blue Alien Babe" to one of my hero's conquests.

I'll PM you some additional thoughts. I like this convo but it seems more appropriate to the Bricks section.

-AZKAMAT

True. I'll post this as a thread on Bricks or General Discussions soon. I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks about this.

-Me

So, after a brief PM discussion between AZKAMAT and I, I put this out there for you guys to chime in on. What do you think? Is this a good change for Lego, or bad? Do you think there might be hope for a positive regression? Are we missing something? Any stories about themes from the good ole days to share?

This is probably my most passionate Lego-related opinion, and I LOVE discussing it with other experienced builders, so PLEASE chime in. I'd love to hear what you guys think about this!

[motorhead fan]

Well, there are some very interesting points here, I suppose that Lego would kid-ify themes seeing as they are a toy company and toys are meant to be for kids, I'm still waiting for a wolfenstein style armored flame trooper or something.

[dilanski]

I still think anyone older than 13 isn't the target audience of any of the play themes. It is just as Brikwarriors, the play-themes are generally the most suitable for us. But saying Lego only caters to kids is A grade reality denial. Lego has numerous sets that are targeted at an older audience, it just isn't the stuff a highly specific subset of lego fans are after.

So while Brikwarriors want power miners, agents, space police, mars mission, exo-force, and we want them with the most militaristic and readily convertible models possible. Your average AFoL on the other hand wants highly detailed modular buildings and realistic collectible kits.

[Av4l4nChE]

I still think anyone older than 13 isn't the target audience of any of the play themes. It is just as Brikwarriors, the play-themes are generally the most suitable for us. But saying Lego only caters to kids is A grade reality denial. Lego has numerous sets that are targeted at an older audience, it just isn't the stuff a highly specific subset of lego fans are after.

So while Brikwarriors want power miners, agents, space police, mars mission, exo-force, and we want them with the most militaristic and readily convertible models possible. Your average AFoL on the other hand wants highly detailed modular buildings and realistic collectible kits.

I think you're right about that. I'd never really thought about the now-obvious distinction between your average AFOL and the elite of Brikwars.

I suppose I mean I wish there were hybrid themes, if you will. Themes that have a fun, kid-like quality, but still are complex and have serious undertones.

I'll use Agents, for example. It was a fun theme. It had a lot of the more common supervillain tropes: giant evil robots, massive superweapon lasers in secret volcano bases, etc.
At the same time, it was not...padded, if you will, for kids 10 and under. The Agents had molded guns, and a lot of the villains had faces that could scare a kid ( Breakjaw, or Dr. inferno, anyone? ) and there were no "easy instruction" models.

Back on the villains. The thing that I get annoyed at is this. I'll try to explain it they best I can.

It's almost like a subconscious buttplug they have now. They're like, " hey, the villains might look a little creepy, but they are still smiling in a not-so-sinister way, and the villains vehicles might be kind of cool, but they still retain this playful quality and bright colors that take away most of the "bite" of a villain vehicle. "

Take, for example, the Jokers vehicle evolution.



We go from the ice cream van in the tumbler set a few years back,



to the gaudy monstrosity of the steamroller just last year.

You can also see this in some of the City subthemes, as AZKAMAT and I were discussing in PM. Sometimes it seems like they won't even put out the effort to revamp a theme, just turn it into some domesticated City subtheme ( city jungle exploration for the Adventurers-type lines, arctic exploration for that one really old arctic theme with a bunch of OT, and volcano exploration for Power Miners ).

Thoughts?

[Omega Prime]

The Arctic exploration theme wasn't really a replacement for Ice Planet 2002, given that one was one that was a continuation of the city line, and Ice Planet was something entirely different(Space), but I can see where you're going here. It just seems like a lot of the sets these days look like reboots of older ones. Also, I agree on the most part about the vehicles. Why can't we just have some vehicle for a villain that isn't some colorful piece of shit that has all these stereotypical villain bells and whistles on it, for once, and some useful parts that aren't in a color like purple which would be hard to use anywhere else? I'm pretty sure that Lego's target audience has shifted down to younger people as a whole, and adding what stubby said, results in this really kidish look that isn't really serious anywhere anymore. Bring back Exo-Force, Mars Mission, and agressive models!

[sahasrahla]

ehh, i feel like some of the new nexo knights and batman movie sets are really well designed build-wise, not at all dumbed down for kids. but i kinda see what you mean theming-wise. then again Lego has always struggled with making compelling fantasy characters imo, even when their build are on point


alpha team had really awesome characters and stuff, but none of their sets were as badass as thr ultra agents truck base set, for instance

[Av4l4nChE]

Yeah the batman movie sets aren't bad in comparison to the other current themes, but when we're talking about batman, I automatically compare sets to the AWESOME lineup (I think it was 2008?) with the tumbler, killer croc's speedboat, and the bat tank. Not that they haven't modified and reused some of those in the current lineup (with not too bad results) but that batman line was the epitome of all superhero lego creations, in my opinion. They were dark, serious, and had some seriously cool models.

As for Nexo Knights, I want to respect it, but it's just too colorful for me. That might sound lame, but in my mind, a huge part of kiddiness in a set is the excess of bright colors. And unfortunately, the color they're spamming is the sacred OT!

I really wish they would redo the Fantasy branch of Castle. That was bloody amazing.

PS: You're right, the Ultra Agents command center is pretty dope, but no set will trump the Agents Mobile Command Center in my mind. That thing is awesome.

[Omega Prime]

The excessive OT spam on The nexo knights is somewhat annoying, to say the least. Good thing I'm pretty sure it isn't the original OT, but the more low grade variant.

[AZKAMAT]

The excessive OT spam on The nexo knights is somewhat annoying, to say the least. Good thing I'm pretty sure it isn't the original OT, but the more low grade variant.

I thought it was kanon that all OT produced after Ice Planet 2002 was the low grade shit.

Anyway...

In response to a point made about official minifig characters being boring. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Your_Dudes
I think this is true even outside a Brikwars framework. My favorite figures as a kid were ones I made up stories for/rebuilt to look sick.

Before I go on I want to say I don't mean to sound like some crank screaming, "WHEH BAHK IN MAH DEH..." I'm comparatively new to the hobby, being either a kid or an adolescent too stuck up to play with plastic anymore back when most of the parts I see featured here were made (pre-2010 from what I can see). I only got back into it about 8 months before my join date. If I had to list my big beefs with current Lego set trends they'd be these (in no particular order, although the last one is my biggest pet peeve).

[btw I'm writing this with the Summer 2017 catalog in hand...]

6) Bright colors. I don't think they're bad in and of themselves at all. Really, I don't. Sometimes it even looks great like 60166 CG helicopter. It's when the line becomes saturated with them that I want to hit the breaks. It's really hard to accumulate a big collection of bright elements unless you specifically buy SW or others licensed themes that don't use them much (i.e. the new ghost pirate ship). One of the reasons I want to get money together to buy the new Old Fishing Store is because it doesn't assault my eyeballs with bright colors, but is more muted yet still looks great.

7) My perception of play features over creativity features. I own both the AT-DP from a while back and the new AT-ST. With it being on sale at the local Wally-World for just $32 USD I might get another of the latter. Both rock 2 spring shooters each, but you can't articulate the legs in any way without making them fall over. Pretty big disappointment since I want to use them in battles soon but I can't do sick poses with them (like one foot on a burning tank, for instance).

Female-flooding the non-licensed themes. For the love of whatever deity or idol you hold dear, please don't make this political. I don't care to talk about the phenomenon in those terms. I also don't think this is an issue in all yellow-sets (modular buildings being a great example), more so the action-y ones. Lego seems to be aware that their yellow-people building sets are primarily prized by male children, given that they've made two whole extra themes with special part molds to specifically target the female demographic. So why bother shooting for what, by my estimation, is between a 3/7 to 1/2 ratio between male and female figures, even in settings where it makes little sense to do so (like the Jungle theme where they're 44.4%. I'd expect a similar ratio for the Coast Guard). When I calculated the ratio of guys-to-girls in the female-targeted sets (Friends and Elves in the catalog), males made up 26% of all figures, or just over 1/4. Why bother with this when Lego's clearly given girls their own specific space? Not that boys can't enjoy Friends or Elves stuff (I even developed more respect while researching this and looking at the builds. If it weren't so expensive Stephanie's House would be up for consideration as it looks compellingly like what I expect a house to appear as), but the point still stands. Frankly, I think it's out of fear on Lego's part. Fear of getting labeled. And I think everyone but the most naive among us know what I'm referring to without needing or wanting to name it. As I said earlier, though, I think this'll pass away as a fad as these powers wane as everything so lame must.

9) Over-reuse of faces. I know I'll be somewhat off on the exact details, but go back to 2005 and before and there's way more diversity in face types across themes. I feel like with themes today we get a lot of repeats of the same ol' faces that have been here for what seems like as long as I've been active in Brikwars. Just go back and look at the types of faces that were made for the themes people are nostalgia-gasming over in this thread and compare them to what we get today. The theme I noticed this most in was Speed Champions. I dig Winking Prick in 75882 and believe the smaller sets would benefit from characterful faces too.

10) Inscrutable set direction. https://shop.lego.com/en-US/Assault-on-Hoth-75098
Wtf even is that Jackson-Pollack of a set? It's like they just puked up a bunch of random crap from the Hoth battle scene and threw it all into one box. It would be so much more ossum if they'd just focused on one portion of it. Just imagine if they'd done it all focused on the the trench line, for example. Had more soldiers and a more compelling set of fortifications elements, maybe even a chicken walker or even a scaled-down AT-AT model to support the Snow Troopers. Made it look like one of those sick battle scene mocs that pop up every now and then. Instead they've got this thing that reminds me of an American variety pack of fireworks; a whole of little junk that's nowhere near as interesting as the powerful shell-launching tube the store also has. I think a clear focus of what the set is supposed to be about is just better, and that this is more true the more expensive the set is. Thankfully this issue isn't very widespread, but it still bothers me. I get that vibe a little with some of the Creator 3-in-1 building sets, like where you get a house with a bunch of outside elements that are decidedly less interesting than the house itself. I hope we don't see more of it.

[Arkbrik]

As someone who mostly buys sets for their parts, I don't have a lot to say about set build quality. Just that Nexo Knights is the raddest theme in years.

Considering parts though, I think Lego is in a great place right now. I went into my 'dark ages' around 2000-2003 exactly because I thought sets were becoming too kiddified. They weren't brick builds anymore, just kits consisting of a few large, one purpose blocks. As it turns out, kids didn't like that shit either, and in 2005 Lego got it together and started making Lego again. My first set purchase taking me out the dark ages was this helicopter. It's made from bricks, plates, slopes, curves! Not just a helicopter chassis, a windshield and a propeller! And that's how sets still look, so I'm happy.

And more recently, I'm happy to see more girl figs in sets. I did quick estimate of my head collection. After 22 years of collecting Lego I have 20-30 female heads... and around 200 male heads. But these days I can get a female head in half the sets I buy, without having to specifically look for them. With more heads there are more options when picking the right face for a character, or a bunch of different boring heads for grunts (I don't like having grunts with the same face).

Female-flooding

And I think everyone but the most naive among us know what I'm referring to without needing or wanting to name it. As I said earlier, though, I think this'll pass away as a fad as these powers wane as everything so lame must.

Don't be shy, we all know what's happening here.

Spoiler

Show

CAPITALISM. Market research. Maximizing profits.

And capitalism's not going away anytime soon.

[motorhead fan]

I would like to add something about the male/female head ratio:

Most male minifigures that I own could(If I wanted) have their male hair/helmet removed and replaced with female hair, and they would look exactly like women,
Surely a female head on a minifigure doesn't always have to have makeup on it? And the male heads with facial hair can just be like that hungarian woman
who won the european song contest.

To be honest though, I don't really buy lego sets anymore, I usually just design my stuff on LDD and then get the parts from bricklink, that way they can be as adulty
and dangerous looking as I want them to be. (Which is a lot)

[Duerer]

Female-flooding the non-licensed themes.

You make it sound like a bad thing. About time Lego sets stopped being boring sausage fests all the time and let the women into the fun as well. Who cares if TLG gave in to social pressure if that simply means that we get more prints and pieces? I mean check out all the cool heroine figs that we can build thanks to the introduction of new prints for torsos and faces:

[Venge]

I'm with Arbrik in that I mostly buy sets for the parts, so I don't mind the spamming of OT, which is actually is the same color as the Ice Planet stuff, I compared the new OT armor with an OTC (God that's badass).

[Duerer]

Yup, the good guys of the Nexo line use the Neon-Transparent Orange, while the lava monsters of last year used the newer OT.

[Av4l4nChE]

That's a cool fact about the OTC, I'd never payed close enough attention to Nexo Knights to closely look at the difference.

I guess my beef with Lego doing the female head thing isn't that they're doing it, if that makes sense. It's why. I'm glad we get more prints, and thus more customization options (although personally I get more use out of male pieces than female as a whole). If it's for captalizing on the current market BECAUSE of the current "women's equality" stuff going on, recently, I say, "why Lego, you sly dogs! Re$pect! Cunning! Capitalizm!" But if they're doing it just so they don't get labeled as non-inclusive, I say, "why Lego, you numbnuts!"

Just my two cents.

Also, I want to point out that it is so dang nice for people here to be able to discuss differing political and social views without getting triggered and spamming watchwords at each other (at least so far lol). \m/ \m/